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TheJesus
05-05-2012, 05:53 PM
I've been talking with AMD/ATI Support for a few weeks (I think months now) about why we can't push 120Hz @ 2560x1440 over DL-DVI. Their engineers say its possible, so based on ToastyX's input of the pixel clock limitation (basically what the 680 doesn't have limited). Here's the emails back and forth (I'll update as I receive more):

Hi, There are a group of people on Overclock.net that have been discussing an issue we face. Are AMD Radeon HD cards capable of outputting 2560x1440 resolution at 120Hz refresh rate via the DisplayPort connection (or DL-DVI)? From a hardware point of view at least, because the drivers have this locked to ~85Hz I believe. A lot of argument has been over the pixel clock limit. Also, it would be incredibly appreciated if the drivers could be changed to remove this 85Hz limitation or at least a way to get past it.
Thank you for your time.

Thank you for contacting AMD

I understand that you asking are the AMD Radeon HD cards capable of outputting 2560x1440 resolution at 120Hz refresh rate via the DisplayPort connection (or DL-DVI)? From a hardware point of view at least, because the drivers have this locked to ~85Hz I believe. A lot of argument has been over the pixel clock limit.

Also, it would be incredibly appreciated if the drivers could be changed to remove this 85Hz limitation or at least a way to get past it.

If I missed any information about your issue please let me know, as my suggestions may change.

Any of our HD5000 series or higher cards is capable of outputting 2560X1440 resolution at 120Hz Refresh rate but has to be one with a dual link DVI connection or native DP output, and also the display has to
provide the resolution and refresh rate as supported for it to be available
for selection.

I believe since Catalyst 10.X or after as long as the display supported
120Hz, the selection was available. The reason people are seeing 85Hz is
because their display isn’t supporting 120Hz.

Thank you for your response.

"The driver is ignoring detailed timing descriptors in the EDID where the
pixel clock exceeds 330 MHz when using dual-link DVI, and 288 MHz when
using DisplayPort."

That appears to be the issue and its hardware-based. I would just like
clarification that is unsupported.

Would you be able to send the EDID information that is coming from the monitor?

This utility will provide information on how the EEPROM chip or the driver file from the monitor is reporting this to the OS.

Hi,

I was unable to acquire the "GetEDID.exe" from the FTP provided (I explored all related folders including the GetEDID folder, but found nothing). However, I did find another GetEDID.exe online and have attached the output from that.

This monitor has also been tested and supports 120Hz on a Nvidia GTX 680, so it definitely works, just an issue with AMD cards from what we can tell.

I am sorry for the delay in the response, this case has been sent for testing, and we are trying to obtain a DisplayPort monitor that supports 2560x1440 resolution at 120Hz.

Once our support team has tested this we will provide you with the results.

I am not able to obatin usefull information from the EDID yuo included in the previous email. Please try to obatin the EDID tool again from the following FTP site. I checked the tool and it works just fine at my end.

As per our engineers there should not be any problem running at 120Hz using a DP 1.2 connection. Can you please provide the manufacturer and the exact model of your graphics card again?

Dear Support,

I should've clarified that the DisplayPort part of the question was simply informational, the monitor that I'm using is DVI-DL only. I will say that the Nvidia GTX 680 supports 120Hz @ 2560x1440 via DVI-DL, so I know its possible.

I have attached an updated EDID from the GetEDID.exe (it was actually on the FTP this time).

Also, the graphics card being used for testing is a HIS Radeon HD 5670 (H567Q1GD). I have a few other people that have tested different models in different series with no success (5, 6, and 7 series).

Ask the engineers about a possible 330MHz limit and how it could be removed or raised to 400+, please.

Thank you for your support on this matter.

And that's where we stand.

UPDATE: I have also reached out to Nvidia's support for the same issue, you can see the inquiry towards the bottom of page 4 and their response on 5. Red text will be AMD and Green text will be Nvidia for the respective teams :)

Junkboy
05-05-2012, 06:13 PM
Let's hope they figure out something , this could be of much use to a lot of people.

whybother
05-05-2012, 06:28 PM
Doubt this will go anywhere. You're dealing with a customer service rep who is bouncing questions back to the engineers.

At first he wrongly states the AMD cards can do 2560x1440 @ 120hz via DVI-D. This would exceed the 400mhz pixel clock, which AMD is never going to advise you do even if technically possible.

Later his response from the engineers states only that 2560x1440 @ 120hz is possible via DisplayPort. This is true, but the monitor will need to have a DisplayPort connection. There is no DisplayPort to DVI-D adapter with a bandwidth greater than 330mhz.

HyperMatrix
05-05-2012, 07:09 PM
Keep in mind my 6970 did hit 408mhz pixel clock through Powerstrip. So we have to figure out what options there are for bypassing the driver limit on the pixel clock. But good call pointing out Nvidia can do it and they can't.

Junkboy
05-05-2012, 07:21 PM
Keep in mind my 6970 did hit 408mhz pixel clock through Powerstrip. So we have to figure out what options there are for bypassing the driver limit on the pixel clock. But good call pointing out Nvidia can do it and they can't.

Even if just to one up Nvidia AMD might help us out on this one and add support. Wishful thinking, but we have to be positive dammit! :p

Vega
05-05-2012, 07:23 PM
But with NVIDIA there is that catch 22. In order to run FPS around 120 to match the 120 Hz refresh rate, you need SLI. And because you run SLI, the max you can go is 100 Hz as it locks it back down to 400 MHz.

I bet the rep above will say "there is no such thing as a 1400P 120 Hz" monitor to test. Which really is correct as these are just being run out of spec.

Hyper, have you ever thought of telling the manufacturer to include an overclock EDID file in the monitors firmware? That would have solved so many problems.

deusofhearts
05-05-2012, 07:28 PM
Seems like an easy solution would be for these Korean manufacturers to start making panels with native DisplayPort inputs... Or am I missing something?

TheJesus
05-06-2012, 12:21 AM
Doubt this will go anywhere. You're dealing with a customer service rep who is bouncing questions back to the engineers.

At first he wrongly states the AMD cards can do 2560x1440 @ 120hz via DVI-D. This would exceed the 400mhz pixel clock, which AMD is never going to advise you do even if technically possible.

Later his response from the engineers states only that 2560x1440 @ 120hz is possible via DisplayPort. This is true, but the monitor will need to have a DisplayPort connection. There is no DisplayPort to DVI-D adapter with a bandwidth greater than 330mhz.

Well, theoretically its possible as there's no true limitation on DVI-DL besides the copper used, so he wasn't necessarily wrong (just doesn't know that AMD cards can't do it, lol). I think I phrased my questions wrong, I said DP and DVI-DL so he was probably focusing on the important one.


But with NVIDIA there is that catch 22. In order to run FPS around 120 to match the 120 Hz refresh rate, you need SLI. And because you run SLI, the max you can go is 100 Hz as it locks it back down to 400 MHz.

I bet the rep above will say "there is no such thing as a 1400P 120 Hz" monitor to test. Which really is correct as these are just being run out of spec.

Hyper, have you ever thought of telling the manufacturer to include an overclock EDID file in the monitors firmware? That would have solved so many problems.

Then you run it at 100Hz, still looks nice :P I don't expect 3D 7680x1440 surround anytime soon.

That's where I was expecting it to go, but we'll see. They do have access to things that aren't even known about publicly.

I was going to recommend the same thing. Include 60, 70, 80, 85, 90, 100, 110, 120Hz points. Hell, that might even solve this problem somehow, lol.


Seems like an easy solution would be for these Korean manufacturers to start making panels with native DisplayPort inputs... Or am I missing something?

We thought about that, but it requires a re-design of the PCB and that would increase costs. If you look at the equivalent 2560x1440 27" Korean monitors with DP, they're $700+ (last I looked), lol.

Also, could the limitation possibly be lifted with an edited BIOS on the cards?

weo
05-06-2012, 06:44 PM
So.. why can't you just use a DP->DVI Dual link adapter?

whybother
05-06-2012, 06:49 PM
Well, theoretically its possible as there's no true limitation on DVI-DL besides the copper used, so he wasn't necessarily wrong (just doesn't know that AMD cards can't do it, lol). I think I phrased my questions wrong, I said DP and DVI-DL so he was probably focusing on the important one.


The limitation for DVI-D is with the pixel clock, which is only 400mhz. I suspect going beyong that voids your graphics cards warranty. No monitor manufacturer is going to provide an EDID exceeding this value for obvious reasons.


So.. why can't you just use a DP->DVI Dual link adapter?

As above, there is no displayport to DVI-D adapter that goes beyond 330mhz at this time.

TheJesus
05-07-2012, 01:25 AM
The limitation for DVI-D is with the pixel clock, which is only 400mhz. I suspect going beyong that voids your graphics cards warranty. No monitor manufacturer is going to provide an EDID exceeding this value for obvious reasons.

I doubt they have that anywhere in the warranty info, lol.

whitespider
05-07-2012, 03:43 AM
If there any way to manually go into each set of drivers and change the EDID. Or am I talking out of my nose?

ToastyX
05-08-2012, 12:37 AM
My program already works by creating an EDID override, so changing the monitor's EDID wouldn't make a difference. AMD's driver ignores resolutions in the EDID where the pixel clock exceeds a certain value, depending on the connection:

Dual-link DVI - 330 MHz
DisplayPort 1.0/1.1 - 288 MHz
DisplayPort 1.2+ - 576 MHz (I haven't verified this, but that's the official limit)

Shadman
05-08-2012, 01:08 AM
I'm so glad we have people dedicated towards helping out others like this. We all thank you!

TheJesus
05-08-2012, 04:02 AM
Well, they responded and I'm not sure how to do this.

Do you have the exact make and model of your monitor?

Do I just state the Yamakasi Catleap 120Hz model or do I say its a prototype or what? I'll be messaging ToastyX as I have before.

HyperMatrix
05-08-2012, 04:12 AM
You could refer them to our shop where they can see it's a commercially available product. You could go further and state the model of the panel and describe the PCB powering it. As it's being sent to engineering, this is what they'd want. But still, I don't think this is where the issue is. The problem isn't this specific monitor. The problem is all AMD cards.

evangelionstar
05-08-2012, 04:28 AM
TheJesus:

Is there any update from AMD regarding the pixel clock limitation fiasco?


It is beyond ridiculous having 2 7950s stuck at 75hz with no way of going past it nor past 82hz(330mhz) on a single card!

I hope no one is giving up on this? Maybe we can start inundating AMD support with similar issue so they recognise it is not an issue affecting one person or so but thousands.

2B_or_not_2B
05-08-2012, 05:18 AM
TheJesus:

Is there any update from AMD regarding the pixel clock limitation fiasco?


It is beyond ridiculous having 2 7950s stuck at 75hz with no way of going past it nor past 82hz(330mhz) on a single card!

I hope no one is giving up on this? Maybe we can start inundating AMD support with similar issue so they recognise it is not an issue affecting one person or so but thousands.

FLOOD ALL THE SUPPORT! :)

So we flood AMD specifically, and the graphic card distributors? Use VOIP and such to rally support for adding a bypass for the pixel clock?

Or do we have to send them a monitor for them to test with

whitespider
05-08-2012, 05:23 AM
That's why my next plan is gtx 670oc nvidia cards in sli. And no, I am not rolling in money. The 6990 will recoup the cost of 1x oc model. The u2711 will recoup the cost of the catleap monitor. So I have to pay for 1x gtx 670 oc model for the sli config.

It depends on your specific situation, which I can never begin to assume. However that's the path I am going. And it's not simply because the gtx 6xx models support 100hz while in sli - it's also the really abusive frame perception issues I have had with this card. If you look at any of the rare, tucked away honest posts, reviews - etc, about microstutter, they all show how amd simply has no consideration/mitigation systems in place.

So i'm taking all these things under consideration as I move forward. And this monitor being a functional entity is step1. Let's hope that part works out.

evangelionstar
05-08-2012, 05:27 AM
FLOOD ALL THE SUPPORT! :)

So we flood AMD specifically, and the graphic card distributors? Use VOIP and such to rally support for adding a bypass for the pixel clock?

Or do we have to send them a monitor for them to test with


Flood support on both AMD side and the Brand side so that both realise this is not an ISOLATED issue from just 1 single person and therefore subject to the ignore bin :)

If AMD gets enough enquries and their associated partners eg Sapphire, HIS, Gigabyte, Asus etc start chasing similar issues back with AMD HQ then they might sit up and pay more notice. Maybe even more so when partners that play both sides eg Asus, Gigabyte etc also show hat it is working on their nvidia offering but not on their amd offering.

Seriously, if their engineers say it is possible and it should do it then how hard can it be for AMD to release a patch/tool or updated drivers that does support it? If Nvidia can do it and does do it so can AMD.

2B_or_not_2B
05-08-2012, 05:50 AM
Seriously, if their engineers say it is possible and it should do it then how hard can it be for AMD to release a patch/tool or updated drivers that does support it? If Nvidia can do it and does do it so can AMD.

^ They have better things to do... like 'gametest' DOTA 2 for the 1000th time to make sure that no bugs occur... or have a 24hr 'interactive stress-test' of WOW to make sure nothing is wrong...

But it's probably that they need more feedback before it is placed @ a higher priority for them to modify it. They modify drivers based on priorities:

1. New GPU support
2. Bugfix any major issues in the latest range of GPUS
3. Bugfix any major gamebreaking bugs
4. etc.
99. Nice to do fixes (such as extra OCing options in CCC, and any interesting features requested by users.

So we have to make enough noise to get near the top.

Manbish
05-08-2012, 06:05 AM
You could refer them to our shop where they can see it's a commercially available product. You could go further and state the model of the panel and describe the PCB powering it. As it's being sent to engineering, this is what they'd want. But still, I don't think this is where the issue is. The problem isn't this specific monitor. The problem is all AMD cards.

+1

whitespider
05-08-2012, 07:05 AM
"The problem is all amd cards" <--- I like the sound of that as a general statement.

Sn0_Man
05-08-2012, 08:25 AM
In general, I prefer the statement "The problem is AMD drivers"

Because, the cards CAN do some pretty high pixel clocks (they advertise 4K resolution compatibility on the 7-series cards which requires pixel clocks well in excess of 400MHz assuming 60Hz refresh) it just wont due to crappy drivers overriding the EDID asking it to go higher :/

whitespider
05-08-2012, 09:19 AM
In general, I prefer the statement "The problem is AMD drivers"

Because, the cards CAN do some pretty high pixel clocks (they advertise 4K resolution compatibility on the 7-series cards which requires pixel clocks well in excess of 400MHz assuming 60Hz refresh) it just wont due to crappy drivers overriding the EDID asking it to go higher :/

I guess in theory amd could implement the very things that make me want a nvidia card. Frame metering <--- to avoid microstutter, The ability to use drive level ssao and force it <-- Just because it's nice to have, Adaptive Vsync <--- Options for framerate output are always welcome, etc etc etc etc.

So yeah, now that I think about it. You are right.

However, I simply don't see any indication that any of this will ever happen. At least not in the next huge number of years. Yes, years.

When people say "drivers", many think "oh, better drivers make games bluescreen less often, or... give you 98.6fps instead of 88.5fps. NO.When I run games with vsync off on my 6990, and the majority of them feel like some kind fo strange mix of 60fps and 12fps. Then I plug my 5870 in, run skyrim, and it's actually more consistent in it's smoothness at 28fps than it is at 62fps (using afterburner to cap) or 80fps (not using afterburner to cap) Then I borrow my friends 470's, sli them up, run skyrim again - and it's smoother at 74fps than the 6990 is with vsync ON, and the 5870.

And sure, some games are smooth on the 6990, like the witcher 2. Just far too many of them have this ---shortframe--shortframe--longframe--- business going on. AND IT MAKES ME BLOODY ANGRY.

/This rant has concluded.

Junkboy
05-08-2012, 04:48 PM
I guess in theory amd could implement the very things that make me want a nvidia card. Frame metering <--- to avoid microstutter, The ability to use drive level ssao and force it <-- Just because it's nice to have, Adaptive Vsync <--- Options for framerate output are always welcome, etc etc etc etc.

So yeah, now that I think about it. You are right.

However, I simply don't see any indication that any of this will ever happen. At least not in the next huge number of years. Yes, years.

When people say "drivers", many think "oh, better drivers make games bluescreen less often, or... give you 98.6fps instead of 88.5fps. NO.When I run games with vsync off on my 6990, and the majority of them feel like some kind fo strange mix of 60fps and 12fps. Then I plug my 5870 in, run skyrim, and it's actually more consistent in it's smoothness at 28fps than it is at 62fps (using afterburner to cap) or 80fps (not using afterburner to cap) Then I borrow my friends 470's, sli them up, run skyrim again - and it's smoother at 74fps than the 6990 is with vsync ON, and the 5870.

And sure, some games are smooth on the 6990, like the witcher 2. Just far too many of them have this ---shortframe--shortframe--longframe--- business going on. AND IT MAKES ME BLOODY ANGRY.

/This rant has concluded.

/comfort

I was thinking of going CF and getting a second 5870 E6 a few weeks ago but most either where 170+ for regular ver or still about $230+ for the E6s, but with all the bad CF driver issues I've personally experienced with older 4850/4870 cards I decide against it. I chose a much cheaper band-aid , a pair of GTX 460's 1GB, because of their superior scaling and massive OC headroom I thought I could get them to 850 minimum which would put them on par (roughly) with said 5870 CF. Luckily I was able to get them to 883/1766/2125 1.087 from 675/1350/1800 1.017 (high stock) and they never break into the 70's with my profile (which at it's highest goes to 65% fan speed and keeps them hovering around 67-68C). If I really wanted to I could use some of the mods to go past the 1.087 limit and probably hit 950 on these if not more and really push them. :p


Going 460's I avoided CF, I get two cards so when I upgrade next gen I can have some decent PhysX cards or HTPC cards, and I was able to get to reference Nvidia branded 460's for only $160 shipped!!, so I'm more than happy going to from the 5870 E6 to the new GTX 460's. Now I know I'm screwed going from 2GB to 1GB vram but I'm willing to turn down some textures and drop most AA on 460's. When choosing between the 7970 and the 680 I decided I wanted neither for the price and would hold out with these puppies until the next set of cards is out.

With CF/SLI the are obvious driver issues with OCing these, but going 460's would mean I really can't push 100+ FPS on the higher-end games with eye candy, which I'm fine with, but it will run most games very good with tweaks and minor AA more than fine. The current crop of cards can't handle some of the games @ 100+ FPS but 780/8970 should be able to achieve that with OC. So, eagerly I await the next launch of cards, hopefully AMD/Nvidia sorts out some of the driver issues......... though I doubt that unfortunately....... ;)

TheJesus
05-08-2012, 08:54 PM
My response:

Dear Support,

It is a Yamakasi Catleap Q270 2B Model.

Internal PCB specs:

DVI PCB W/SPEAKER
MODEL #: HY-2560M_DA_Q1.REV.4

CENTER PANEL PCB (CONNECTS TO DVI PCB)
MODEL # LM270WQ1-SLA1
P/N: 6870C-0340A_REV0.2
DESIGNED: 2010.04.06

RIGHT TOP PANEL PCB
MODEL # LM270WQ1-SDA2 SOURCE PCB(R)
P/N: 6870S-0922A EVT2 REV0.4
DESIGNED: 2009/05/06

LEFT TOP PANEL PCB
MODEL # LM270WQ1-SDA2 SOURCE PCB(L)
P/N: 6870S-0921A EVT2 REV0.4
DESIGNED: 2009/05/06

You can find more information at http://120hz.net. With the proper EDID this model will operate at 75Hz on most AMD cards or 100Hz on Nvidia cards (the GTX680 will do 120Hz, some have reached even higher because of the pixel clock not being limited). This is not a small issue affecting a few users, there are hundreds of people that have already purchased these monitors or plan to, but many of them plan to buy Nvidia cards to utilize the full capability.

Sincerely,
**********

Sn0_Man
05-09-2012, 08:10 AM
I think that is a great response... :)

I know you will anyways, but KEEP US POSTED me and my 7950 are anxious to hear the details :D

whitespider
05-09-2012, 08:20 AM
Yes, great response.

Although, by the way things are looking, it's more "hundreds, soon to be thousands"

Sn0_Man
05-09-2012, 08:29 AM
Yes, great response.

Although, by the way things are looking, it's more "hundreds, soon to be thousands"

If only there were that many to go around :P

zoomer
05-09-2012, 10:52 AM
Well, they responded and I'm not sure how to do this.

Do you have the exact make and model of your monitor?

Do I just state the Yamakasi Catleap 120Hz model or do I say its a prototype or what? I'll be messaging ToastyX as I have before.

It seems like you caught the attention of an engineer. It would be a question I would ask if I were on the other side.

Junkboy
05-09-2012, 05:15 PM
My response:

Dear Support,

It is a Yamakasi Catleap Q270 2B Model.

Internal PCB specs:

DVI PCB W/SPEAKER
MODEL #: HY-2560M_DA_Q1.REV.4

CENTER PANEL PCB (CONNECTS TO DVI PCB)
MODEL # LM270WQ1-SLA1
P/N: 6870C-0340A_REV0.2
DESIGNED: 2010.04.06

RIGHT TOP PANEL PCB
MODEL # LM270WQ1-SDA2 SOURCE PCB(R)
P/N: 6870S-0922A EVT2 REV0.4
DESIGNED: 2009/05/06

LEFT TOP PANEL PCB
MODEL # LM270WQ1-SDA2 SOURCE PCB(L)
P/N: 6870S-0921A EVT2 REV0.4
DESIGNED: 2009/05/06

You can find more information at http://120hz.net. With the proper EDID this model will operate at 75Hz on most AMD cards or 100Hz on Nvidia cards (the GTX680 will do 120Hz, some have reached even higher because of the pixel clock not being limited). This is not a small issue affecting a few users, there are hundreds of people that have already purchased these monitors or plan to, but many of them plan to buy Nvidia cards to utilize the full capability.

Sincerely,
**********

I too love the response, gives enough precise technical info that the person who see's it pretty much as to forward it to engineers to check up on those model numbers and hopefully a couple of them join the site and get a monitor or two then they'll have some vested interest in getting this issue solved.

HyperMatrix
05-09-2012, 06:37 PM
I decided I should contact Nvidia regarding the SLI issue/limit. But apparently with Nvidia you have to contact the specific company you bought the card from. ie. evga. Which means...it's going to be incredibly hard to let them know what the issue is. As there are going to be multiple middle-men in the support chain. I can already tell this is going to be very frustrating.

Junkboy
05-09-2012, 06:44 PM
I decided I should contact Nvidia regarding the SLI issue/limit. But apparently with Nvidia you have to contact the specific company you bought the card from. ie. evga. Which means...it's going to be incredibly hard to let them know what the issue is. As there are going to be multiple middle-men in the support chain. I can already tell this is going to be very frustrating.


:(

btw any thoughts on what a 460 SLI *might* be able to OC this to?

HyperMatrix
05-09-2012, 06:47 PM
:(

btw any thoughts on what a 460 SLI *might* be able to OC this to?

Probably the standard 100hz.

Junkboy
05-09-2012, 06:52 PM
Probably the standard 100hz.

Aye, danke my good man. As long as it's 85 or better I'll be happy.

TheJesus
05-09-2012, 08:33 PM
Make me do everything myself, geez. I just contacted Nvidia's support:

I am having an issue with all Nvidia cards below the 600 series.

If I try to use my monitor at 2560x1440 @ 120Hz, it fails. The only card I've successfully done this on was the GTX680. Every other card goes to 100Hz, but no higher.

I have narrowed it down to the driver is ignoring detailed timing descriptors in the EDID where the pixel clock exceeds 330 MHz when using dual-link DVI.

AMD cards are all afflicted by this issue as well, but more severely.

Your input on this matter would be most appreciated.

Sincerely,
Blah

If they respond, I'll also make sure to address the SLI limitation as I just remembered it, oops.

Davion
05-09-2012, 08:40 PM
Out of curiosity, whats the highest Hz AMD 7870 can do?

TheJesus
05-09-2012, 08:49 PM
Out of curiosity, whats the highest Hz AMD 7870 can do?

75Hz is my guess, maybe 80/85.

HyperMatrix
05-09-2012, 09:05 PM
I was under the impression that you could do 82hz with standard timings. And up to 85hz if you changed the timings manually. As that would still be within the 330mhz pixel clock limit.

TheJesus
05-09-2012, 09:42 PM
Not really sure, I can't keep track of it all, lol.

Junkboy
05-09-2012, 10:19 PM
I decided I should contact Nvidia regarding the SLI issue/limit. But apparently with Nvidia you have to contact the specific company you bought the card from. ie. evga. Which means...it's going to be incredibly hard to let them know what the issue is. As there are going to be multiple middle-men in the support chain. I can already tell this is going to be very frustrating.

I'M SUCH A DOPE............. just realized my 460's are Nvidia branded .........I can contact them directly..........but I have to leave for work in about 6 mins. :( BAH!!!!

TheJesus
05-09-2012, 10:33 PM
Response received from Nvidia already :O

"Hello Matthew,

Thank you for contacting NVIDIA Customer Care.

This is Kishen, assisting you in troubleshooting the issue that you are experiencing. First, I would like to apologize for your support request being unexpectedly delayed.

From the problem description, I understand that you have issue with the graphic card as you are not able to get the refresh rate to 120 Hertz.

I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. Please be assured that I will do my best to help you. However, to analyze the issue better and to determine the cause for the problem, I will need additional information:

1. Since when are you facing this issue with the graphic card and the display?
2. Did you try installing any alternate drivers for the graphic card and check if that can solve the issue?
3. Do you perform a custom installation or express installation of the drivers for the graphic card?
4. Did you try to set the 120 Hertz using the custom resolution option?

I will look forward to your reply to assist you better.

Best regards,
Kishen,
NVIDIA Customer Care"

I responded:

"Hi Kishen,

Thank you for the quick response.

1. Always, it has never worked correctly.
2. Yes, none of them change the limitation.
3. I have tried both, neither is more successful.
4. Yes, but it doesn't work past 100Hz at that resolution.

Thank you."

whitespider
05-10-2012, 01:52 AM
Hey, at least it was not a100% impersonal copy/paste answer (although it sounded a bit like it at first).

Also - my name is matthew. AMAZING.

TheJesus
05-10-2012, 01:33 PM
Why is it that both companies instantly blame the monitor when its their hardware stopping it? :mad:

Hello Matthew,

Thank you for your reply.

As of now there is no monitor with 2560*1440 resolution compatible with 3D Vision. The maximum resolution supported by 3D Vision certified monitor is 1920*1080. You can find a list of compatible in the link below:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-system-requirements.html

Please let us know the monitor model number you have.

I will look forward for you reply to assist you further.

Best Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care

Hi Rashid,

I am not trying to use 3D Vision because I know that will not work unless the monitor is certified. I simply want to use a monitor that supports 2560x1440 resolution at 120Hz refresh. I know it works because the GTX680 can do it, but all other cards stop at ~100Hz. Through discussions with many people facing the same issue with this monitor it has been narrowed down to the pixel clock limit on most cards. The GTX680 does not have this limitation and thus can drive the full 120Hz.

Another issue is that when placed in SLI, the pixel clock becomes limited and thus limits the output to 100Hz.

It is a Yamakasi Catleap Q270 2B Model.

Internal PCB specs:

DVI PCB W/SPEAKER
MODEL #: HY-2560M_DA_Q1.REV.4

CENTER PANEL PCB (CONNECTS TO DVI PCB)
MODEL # LM270WQ1-SLA1
P/N: 6870C-0340A_REV0.2
DESIGNED: 2010.04.06

RIGHT TOP PANEL PCB
MODEL # LM270WQ1-SDA2 SOURCE PCB(R)
P/N: 6870S-0922A EVT2 REV0.4
DESIGNED: 2009/05/06

LEFT TOP PANEL PCB
MODEL # LM270WQ1-SDA2 SOURCE PCB(L)
P/N: 6870S-0921A EVT2 REV0.4
DESIGNED: 2009/05/06

You can find more information at http://120hz.net. With the proper EDID this model will operate at 75Hz on most AMD cards or 100Hz on Nvidia cards (the GTX680 will do 120Hz, some have reached even higher because of the pixel clock not being limited). This is not a small issue affecting a few users, there are hundreds of people that have already purchased these monitors or plan to.

Even if there isn't a 3D Vision certified monitor at this resolution, this functionality should have been built in to begin with.

Thank you for your response.

Sincerely,
Matthew blah

Hello Matthew,

Thank you for all the information.

The issue you are experiencing is not a general behavior of the graphics card or the graphics driver. However, such issues could also occur if the display driver is not registered properly in Windows. Hence, in order to troubleshoot the issue I would request you to install this display driver 301.24.

Please download and save the graphic card driver on the desktop by visiting the page at the following link.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7-winvista-64bit-301.24-beta-driver.html

I request you to please try installing the drivers for the graphic card using the custom installation and check the option "Perform clean installation" and then have a check if that can solve the issue.

Please let us know if the above steps have helped us to fix the issue

Warm Regards,
Kishen,
NVIDIA Customer Care

TheJesus
05-10-2012, 01:45 PM
I need someone with a non-680 card to test that driver in the last link at 120Hz.

C0PPERH34D
05-10-2012, 02:00 PM
I'd like to test it for you with my 470GTX but i dont have a 120hz WQHD yet. ;) So i think there are some others with both.

HyperMatrix
05-10-2012, 03:09 PM
TheJesus, that's a horseshit response. "The issue you are experiencing is not a general behavior of the graphics card or the graphics driver." Let them know it's not an issue with the driver registering in Windows because even bypassing the driver and forcing the pixel clock increase with Powerstrip stops at 400mhz. 400mhz, interestingly, was the limit of the old ramdac chips. Which I guess just stuck.

Tell the rep to look up what "Pixel Clock" is, and how it relates to resolution/refresh rate or to transfer the case to someone who does know what it is.

edit: I'm being mean. Sorry. I hate stupid/ignorant people.

Phunky
05-10-2012, 03:16 PM
I've not got my catleap yet but Ive been using that driver for one time on my LG W2363D and 120hz is fine, doubt this is of any help tho :/ will happily test once mine comes.

My cards a 2 GB EVGA 560ti btw

TheJesus
05-10-2012, 03:34 PM
HyperMatrix, you're not being mean, they are ignorant because they are simply support, not engineers, lol.
Phunky, that won't help, thank you though :)

My response:

Hi Kishen,

I have attempted to use those drivers, but there is no change.

This is an issue with the "pixel clock" not being able to exceed 400MHz that may need to be forwarded to the engineers. I have been discussing this issue with AMD's support as well, their engineers stated that 2560x1440 @ 120Hz via DVI-DL is supported, but we can't get it to work for the same reason.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Matthew Karlovic

whitespider
05-10-2012, 03:40 PM
I hope he/she responds with someone higher up the chain in toe.

HyperMatrix
05-10-2012, 04:11 PM
I just sent this to evga. Let's see how they respond:


Hi. I have a problem. I set up my monitor with 1 GTX 680. Got it working just fine. Set a 120hz refresh rate on a 2560x1440 display. Worked just fine. No issues. This was at a 476mhz pixel clock, fyi. I added a second GTX 680 (same brand, model) and the system would hang for 3 seconds, every 3-5 seconds. I thought it was a powersupply issue so I went out and upgraded my 850w to a 1250w which is overkill. And the issue continued. The only way to resolve the system hanging/hiccups is to disable SLI. Once doing that, the system no longer detects the second video card until the computer is restarted.

After further testing, I found out that the problem is due to SLI. Whereas a single GTX 680 can properly run higher than 400mhz pixel clock (It needs to be able to do this. 4K display support at 60hz requires a 535mhz pixel clock), when in SLI mode, it will just fail completely if you go even 1 mhz above the 400mhz cap. So that means no 120hz 2560x1440 displays. No 60hz 4k displays. So by using SLI instead of a single card, I'm now limited to a 400mhz pixel clock which at 2560x1440 resolution equates to a 100hz refresh rate. Basically...by buying a second video card from you, I'm getting less than I was getting from the single card.

Can you please tell me how to resolve this issue because I have a 120hz 2560x1440 monitor. I have a GTX 680 that works with my 120hz monitor. But I have an SLI issue when running 2 cards, that limits to a 400mhz pixel clock. Thanks.

whitespider
05-10-2012, 04:18 PM
Probably best to list the monitor model and link it, and/or list that it's a rare model monitor that can overclock, or both. Saves them asking that in the next question and you responding. Otherwise good start. And it's great that you are being persistent about this.

HyperMatrix
05-10-2012, 04:19 PM
Well I figured why not...and if they fix this I'll do a gtx 690 + gtx 680 tri-sli setup to take advantage of the extra 20 frames. =D I'm almost as bad as Vega it seems.

TheJesus
05-10-2012, 04:25 PM
Well I figured why not...and if they fix this I'll do a gtx 690 + gtx 680 tri-sli setup to take advantage of the extra 20 frames. =D I'm almost as bad as Vega it seems.

Once you run 3 of them at 120Hz, then you'll be Vega, lol.

HyperMatrix
05-10-2012, 04:32 PM
Once you run 3 of them at 120Hz, then you'll be Vega, lol.

Lol. Apparently can't do a 690 + 680 someone said. :( But yes Vega is insane. I can't even begin to imagine a system that can power that many displays for gaming purposes at anything close to 60 FPS. :P I mean, there are a lot of limitations. With 2x MSAA, BF3 at 1440 full details puts out 80-120fps. That's on 2x OC'd gtx 680's. Now...add twice the video processing power. So 160-240 fps. Then divide by 5 displays. And you have yourself 32fps-48fps. Now if the GTX 790's come out are on 500mm dies and actually have 78% higher transistor count...those could potentially get him 57-85 FPS. Or go with FXAA instead of 2x MSAA and likely 70-100fps. That would be doable. But that's a lot of ifs. I have no idea what he's thinking. Lol.

Though I guess if he games on 3 displays only, that'd be 55-84fps with 2x GTX 690's. Lol. Or on GTX 790's, around 99-148fps. <-- this would be nice and doable.

whitespider
05-10-2012, 04:41 PM
It might be the poverty talking, but I don't think it's really worth going 5 screens........(thinks deeply)

.... It's probably the poverty talking.

TheJesus
05-10-2012, 04:52 PM
It might be the poverty talking, but I don't think it's really worth going 5 screens........(thinks deeply)

.... It's probably the poverty talking.

I don't even like the hassle of 3. I'd rather have one of these monitors, but no one wants to buy my monitors :(

Vega
05-10-2012, 05:25 PM
Lol. Apparently can't do a 690 + 680 someone said. :( But yes Vega is insane. I can't even begin to imagine a system that can power that many displays for gaming purposes at anything close to 60 FPS. :P I mean, there are a lot of limitations. With 2x MSAA, BF3 at 1440 full details puts out 80-120fps. That's on 2x OC'd gtx 680's. Now...add twice the video processing power. So 160-240 fps. Then divide by 5 displays. And you have yourself 32fps-48fps. Now if the GTX 790's come out are on 500mm dies and actually have 78% higher transistor count...those could potentially get him 57-85 FPS. Or go with FXAA instead of 2x MSAA and likely 70-100fps. That would be doable. But that's a lot of ifs. I have no idea what he's thinking. Lol.

Though I guess if he games on 3 displays only, that'd be 55-84fps with 2x GTX 690's. Lol. Or on GTX 790's, around 99-148fps. <-- this would be nice and doable.

Hyper, it doesn't work like that. In your example you would say that running BF3 at your settings would run at 1/5th the FPS using 5 1440p displays instead of 1. Granted, it is 5 times the pixels but simply pushing pixels isn't the sole determination to performance. You have to realize that a large portion of the polygons etc, the view into the world are having to be calculated on the single display just as well on the 5x display.

Granted, with 5x 1440p displays you will not be able to run something like BF3 maxxed even with 2x 7990's in quad-fire and get 60+ FPS. If you turn down MSAA and a setting here and there, you'd be surprised at how well it can work out. I wouldn't play FPS's on such a massive setup anyway as central-quick vision is more important for that (hence my FW900). This setup will be for games like Guild Wars 2 and Skyrim that isn't hugely demanding and benefit from a massive view into the world.

At first I will test three of these displays at 100 Hz on my GTX 680 SLI setup to see how I like them (the one I ordered from this site and the two 2B's I got off Ebay). I first will have to take one apart to see how small I can get the bezel's to see if they can meet my stringent standards. ;)

Junkboy
05-10-2012, 06:05 PM
Bah so just beta drivers with no change. :/ I'll make up a quick email and send it out today just so they have more than a few people inquiring about it.

Conker
05-11-2012, 01:00 PM
Is it confirmed that the GTX 670 will run higher than 100hz (and if so what's the max most should see)? I wasn't sure if anyone had one yet to test it out. I'm not too concerned with that, just curious.

The 670 is my stop-gap card right now, as I'm waiting for June-July to get here and find out more about the Radeon 7990 and pricing, then I will decide what dual-card I want.

Sn0_Man
05-11-2012, 01:05 PM
It is not confirmed, we just suspect strongly. Also, my 2B extreme is shipping to me right now and I have a 670 sitting on my desk so it will be confirmed soon (but DHL is being slow with my monitor so maybe I'll have to confirm monday night? Dunno).

Assuming it gets past 100Hz, the max HyperMatrix hit was ~135 which would be the same for the 670. However, I think that that was a monitor max, not a video card max, so YMMV :)

waperboy
05-11-2012, 01:17 PM
TheJesus, that's a horseshit response. "The issue you are experiencing is not a general behavior of the graphics card or the graphics driver." Let them know it's not an issue with the driver registering in Windows because even bypassing the driver and forcing the pixel clock increase with Powerstrip stops at 400mhz. 400mhz, interestingly, was the limit of the old ramdac chips. Which I guess just stuck.

Tell the rep to look up what "Pixel Clock" is, and how it relates to resolution/refresh rate or to transfer the case to someone who does know what it is.

edit: I'm being mean. Sorry. I hate stupid/ignorant people.

Yea, support responses like these make me smile - they might just as well have asked if you have connected the power cord. I can hear the outsourced-to-large-population-country-support-person-voice...

Vega
05-11-2012, 01:17 PM
The 670/680/690 all use the same RAMDAC so they should all clock the same. The only thing that should come into play is the SLI different RAMDAC speed/bug 400 MHz limit.

Sn0_Man
05-11-2012, 01:25 PM
The 670/680/690 all use the same RAMDAC so they should all clock the same. The only thing that should come into play is the SLI different RAMDAC speed/bug 400 MHz limit.

I totally agree. The only thing is... well, stranger things have happened. I'm actually curious since the 670 ref board is so cut-down, if maybe it has some effect? Unlikely for sure. Mine is a Gigabyte on a 680 board though so I'm 99% sure mine will work. I suppose I could go *rent* a ref board one from my local B&M store (7 day return policy even if you open and use it) but that seems shady + a lot of work.

Conker
05-11-2012, 01:48 PM
What is the best model of the 670 to get right now? Since I'm going to likely sell it in the next couple of months, I was hoping to get one that would do good for as long as possible until I decide to sell. With the PCB on the Gigabyte one, and some of the clock speeds on the Galaxy ones, did I make a bad choice in the EVGA Superclocked, or will that likely be a very minimal difference in performance and the display for the Catleap.

Realistically, most of the games I play if I put them at max settings will prob only run at 80-100 FPS with the 670 anyways, so it prob won't matter to get better performance now, but I'm just curious if I made the wrong choice in which to get. I even ordered the backplate for it from EVGA :P I have the money to get a 680 but I didn't want to wait anymore and the performance difference isn't a huge deal.

Would the 7970 have been a better option than the 670?

Sn0_Man
05-11-2012, 02:03 PM
Well, now you are getting into subjective discussion, and every person will tell you a different thing. I am happy to provide my opinions, however be aware that other people may disagree. Potentially strongly.

Re best 670: IMO the absolute best 670 is the ASUS DCUII Top, since it uses an excellent, quiet cooler and has binned chips (and I dont think it is on a reference PCB). The gigabyte is easily the best deal since it is priced at MSRP but has a fancy cooler and 680 PCB. I will say that the evga superclocked also uses binned chips so it wasn't a bad choice necessarily. Depends on what kind of overclocking you will do.

Given the size of the 670 SC, the backplate is probably unnecessary, but it looks cool so you can't go wrong with it haha.

Re 7970: This all depends on what price you were looking at paying for a 7970. The 680, priced at $500, is a ripoff compared to the 670 which is ~10% less performance at most. The 7970, at MSRP of $480, is similarly a ripoff (I consider the 7970 and 680 VERY close in performance assuming you overclock. If you don't, well the 680 crushes the 7970). However, at ~$430 which is what some people are finding 7970s for, you can make a very compelling argument for the 7970. Especially since it has 3GB of RAM, a much more robust construction in general, and really does edge out the 670 in most games (except TWIMTBP titles).

Obviously, the 670 will OC this monitor better, draws a bit less power, runs a bit cooler, is a bit cheaper, SLI's wayyyyyy better, etc so you can't say you made the wrong choice.

It is all opinion and preference. Hope this helped :p

Conker
05-11-2012, 02:23 PM
That helped a lot. I do understand it is subjective in some ways, but that's fine...this forum has really good posters too :-), some others usually give a lot of biased responses that aren't helpful or just say "it doesn't matter any 670 will destroy this and that" or such.

I don't feel too bad about getting the SC model then...and I live in Alaska so I basically was choosing from either Newegg or Amazon as everyone else charges a lot for shipping, and 680/7970 I did feel were overpriced but even though I have the money, performance-wise I didn't think they're worth it so this just confirms what I had previously thought.

Only thing I wish is Amazon or Newegg had the ASUS DCUII, I'd have gotten it over anything else. In the end, it's prob at most only a few FPS difference between it and any other model 670 though, right?

I'll OC the EVGA, but not a lot since I don't plan to invest in a great cooler for it or such.

deusofhearts
05-11-2012, 03:28 PM
If you're in the US. Newegg has lowered the Sapphire OC 7970 to $450 plus 3 free games. Very attractive price for one of the better 7970s.

If the ASUS DC2T 7970 drops to $450, I may have to go with that over the GTX 670 4GB. Still waiting on the fabled GTX 680 Lightning (hopefully in 4gb)

TheJesus
05-12-2012, 01:15 AM
Hello Matthew,

Thank you for the response.

I am sorry for the inconvenience caused, however I request you to please provide me the EDID report of the display to assist you further in a better way.

To obtain information about your monitor, please carry out the following steps.

1. Please download the Monitor Asset Manager utility from the web page at:

http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm and install the same

2. Launch the utility and in the Monitor Asset Manager window click on the Report button at the bottom.
3. Click on the OK button when the Monitor Report window pops open.
4. Then Save the file by supplying a suitable name in the File name text box and Click on the Save button to save the monitor information. You can then mail us the above files.

I will look forward to your reply to assist you better.

Best regards,
Kishen,
NVIDIA Customer Care

I'll get ToastyX to give me another copy of the EDID with this program.

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 02:33 AM
Not a big fan of that request. Because clearly the EDID is going to report a 60hz monitor. -_-

Here's the file though. 115


Monitor
Manufacturer............. HYO
Plug and Play ID......... HYO049B
Serial number............ n/a
Manufacture date......... 2011, ISO week 40
Filter driver............ None
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital (DisplayPort)
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. Monochrome/grayscale
Screen size.............. 600 x 340 mm (27.2 in)
Power management......... Active off/sleep
Extension blocs.......... 1 (Reserved - 0x00)
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.653 - Ry 0.334
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.300 - Gy 0.620
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.146 - By 0.050
White point (default).... Wx 0.313 - Wy 0.329
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Range limits............. Not available
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 2560x1440p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "2560x1440" 241.500 2560 2608 2640 2720 1440 1443 1448 1481 +hsync -vsync

Standard timings supported

Report information
Date generated........... 5/12/2012
Software revision........ 2.60.0.972
Data source.............. Real-time 0x0100
Operating system......... 6.1.7601.2.Service Pack 1

Raw data
00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,23,2F,9B,04,00,00,00,00,28 ,15,01,03,A5,3C,22,78,22,6F,B1,A7,55,4C,9E,25,
0C,50,54,00,00,00,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01 ,01,01,01,01,01,56,5E,00,A0,A0,A0,29,50,30,20,
35,00,55,50,21,00,00,1A,00,00,00,FC,00,44,55,41,4C ,2D,44,56,49,0A,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00,0A,
20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00 ,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,01,11

Catrik
05-12-2012, 03:12 AM
Maybe you should link one of the Hyper's youtube videos where he shows these monitors CAN overclock to 120Hz?

Vega
05-12-2012, 03:50 AM
When you report the EDID just change this line: Native/preferred timing.. 2560x1440p at 60Hz (16:9)

to 100 Hz lol. That will keep it in the 400 MHz RAMDAC spec.

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 04:47 AM
When you report the EDID just change this line: Native/preferred timing.. 2560x1440p at 60Hz (16:9)

to 100 Hz lol. That will keep it in the 400 MHz RAMDAC spec.


But then they won't need to apply a fix to up the pixel clock rate. Also RAMDAC isn't what we're referring to as that is a digital to analog conversion component. And dvi is a straight digital signal. So it's just referred to as the pixel clock in our situation.

And if I knew the mumbo jumbo "raw data" section didn't basically say the same thing (that it's a 60hz monitor) then I'd be all up for switching the data. :P

whitespider
05-12-2012, 05:37 AM
Just draw attention to the fact that it's an overclockable monitor and that's why people are purchasing it. Or will that prevent them from caring. Feels like there is a robot in the other end sometimes. It really does.

Vega
05-12-2012, 06:23 AM
But then they won't need to apply a fix to up the pixel clock rate. Also RAMDAC isn't what we're referring to as that is a digital to analog conversion component. And dvi is a straight digital signal. So it's just referred to as the pixel clock in our situation.

And if I knew the mumbo jumbo "raw data" section didn't basically say the same thing (that it's a 60hz monitor) then I'd be all up for switching the data. :P

The RAMDAC is the pixel clock (one in the same). It can output digital or analog (for digital it obviously bypasses the conversion to analog), but both signals are processed at 400 MHz and are integral to the GPU and no longer separate chips on the PCB. I highly doubt they would allow an official out-of-spec over 400 MHz but it doesn't hurt to try. Going over 400 MHz is just a loophole in the driver with custom resolutions that catches up with itself in SLI. Sending them a 1440P 60 Hz EDID isn't going to do much IMO.

evangelionstar
05-12-2012, 11:56 AM
can anyone confirm if the 670 does full 120hz and if they too are limited to 100hz in SLI?

Im thinking of changing from 7950oc CF to 670OC SLI for the extra refresh rate boost....

Crizume
05-12-2012, 12:19 PM
Still no update evangelion as most people from the first batch are awaiting their orders. A lucky few have gotten theirs early. My 670 is down the street and ready for delivery monday. Hopefully my monitor also comes in monday/tuesday and I will update if someone doesnt beat me to it.

TheJesus
05-12-2012, 03:41 PM
I got the EDID from ToastyX with the properly changed settings to reflect 60, 80, 100, and 120Hz. So no worries.

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 04:33 PM
I got the EDID from ToastyX with the properly changed settings to reflect 60, 80, 100, and 120Hz. So no worries.

Is the raw info section at the bottom not going to give us away? :P

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 05:00 PM
Your Question:

Hi. I have a problem. I set up my monitor with 1 GTX 680. Got it working just fine. Set a 120hz refresh rate on a 2560x1440 display. Worked just fine. No issues. This was at a 476mhz pixel clock, fyi. I added a second GTX 680 (same brand, model) and the system would hang for 3 seconds, every 3-5 seconds. I thought it was a powersupply issue so I went out and upgraded my 850w to a 1250w which is overkill. And the issue continued. The only way to resolve the system hanging/hiccups is to disable SLI. Once doing that, the system no longer detects the second video card until the computer is restarted.

After further testing, I found out that the problem is due to SLI. Whereas a single GTX 680 can properly run higher than 400mhz pixel clock (It needs to be able to do this. 4K display support at 60hz requires a 535mhz pixel clock), when in SLI mode, it will just fail completely if you go even 1 mhz above the 400mhz cap. So that means no 120hz 2560x1440 displays. No 60hz 4k displays. So by using SLI instead of a single card, I'm now limited to a 400mhz pixel clock which at 2560x1440 resolution equates to a 100hz refresh rate. Basically...by buying a second video card from you, I'm getting less than I was getting from the single card.

Can you please tell me how to resolve this issue because I have a 120hz 2560x1440 monitor. I have a GTX 680 that works with my 120hz monitor. But I have an SLI issue when running 2 cards, that limits to a 400mhz pixel clock. Thanks.
Your Answer:

Hi HyperMatrix,

If you have not already done so try the other card alone in the system to confirm if it is working correctly as when in SLI if one card is failing it can cause issues. Try it in the top slot as well as alone in the lower slot to confirm it is not a slot issue.

If there is no change try reloading the drivers and have the clean install option enabled under Custom. Also try the latest beta drivers. You can download them here.

Please contact us back with the results.

Regards,
EVGA



My latest reply:

Hi Matthew,

I've tested both cards in both slots. And individually, they are both running 120hz at 2560x1440 fine. The problem only occurs when SLI is enabled and shows a clear malfunction of the driver or bios as it appears that the new 4k display@60hz (and therefore, 1440p display at 120hz) option was never set up properly for SLI configurations. It crashes precisely beyond the 400mhz pixel clock mark. Which is not supposed to happen as the 400mhz is an approximation. Not a hard line. On my Radeon HD 6970 (pre-4k support), for example, it goes up to 408mhz.

I've tried the initial drivers. I've tried the beta drivers. I even tried modified gtx 690 drivers hoping that would resolve the issue. But it hasn't.

This just seems to be a result of oversight.

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 05:05 PM
And after doing these tests...I was reminded just how nice 120hz is. I really hope the gtx 690 can do 120hz. Or they fix the drivers so my 680's can do it too. 60-->100hz is massive. It's a 67% boost in frames you see. But from 100hz-->125hz is still another 25% boost. That's nothing to scoff at. Here's hoping, anyway...

Vega
05-12-2012, 05:18 PM
Hyper, you think you can really tell the difference between 100 Hz and 120 Hz on these panels? It will be interesting to see once mine comes in. Also, some good news maybe for those that run SLI on more than one cat leap in regards to the SLI limit. I posted some info in my 3x Eyefinity thread. It wouldn't help out on single monitor config's. It will be interesting if EVGA can send your support request to NVIDIA.

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 06:21 PM
Hyper, you think you can really tell the difference between 100 Hz and 120 Hz on these panels? It will be interesting to see once mine comes in. Also, some good news maybe for those that run SLI on more than one cat leap in regards to the SLI limit. I posted some info in my 3x Eyefinity thread. It wouldn't help out on single monitor config's. It will be interesting if EVGA can send your support request to NVIDIA.

Oh yeah. Even with things like mouse cursor trails and moving windows around. When you're at 100hz you don't feel like you're missing anything. And it is the most significant jump. but 125hz is 25% more frames for you to see. That's...a fairly significant increase in performance. So I'm hoping there can be some kind of fix to SLI systems with future drivers. That would be epic.

zoomer
05-13-2012, 01:01 AM
Monitor
Manufacturer............. HYO
Plug and Play ID......... HYO049B
Serial number............ n/a
Manufacture date......... 2011, ISO week 40
Filter driver............ None
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital (DisplayPort)
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. Monochrome/grayscale
Screen size.............. 600 x 340 mm (27.2 in)
Power management......... Active off/sleep
Extension blocs.......... 1 (Reserved - 0x00)
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.653 - Ry 0.334
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.300 - Gy 0.620
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.146 - By 0.050
White point (default).... Wx 0.313 - Wy 0.329
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Range limits............. Not available
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 2560x1440p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "2560x1440" 241.500 2560 2608 2640 2720 1440 1443 1448 1481 +hsync -vsync

Standard timings supported

Report information
Date generated........... 5/12/2012
Software revision........ 2.60.0.972
Data source.............. Real-time 0x0100
Operating system......... 6.1.7601.2.Service Pack 1

Raw data
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0C,50,54,00,00,00,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01 ,01,01,01,01,01,56,5E,00,A0,A0,A0,29,50,30,20,
35,00,55,50,21,00,00,1A,00,00,00,FC,00,44,55,41,4C ,2D,44,56,49,0A,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00,0A,
20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00 ,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,20,01,11
Interestingly, it looks like the EDID sent does NOT include any good vertical frequency information. Bytes 38–53 are not used, and all four descriptor blocks do not include the Monitor range limits (required) block, which can be identified by the 4th byte in the block (byte 3) being 0xFD. However, I bet the required info is in the EDID Detailed Timing Descriptor, bytes 54–71.

Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDID

Attached table with bytes numbered.117

meowface
05-13-2012, 04:15 AM
Is there any way the driver package can be modded to get around the 400mhz limit? Seeing as a gtx 670 sli upgrade is in the works if I grab this monitor I will be awaiting the outcome of this support ticket with great interest..

HyperMatrix
05-13-2012, 04:57 AM
Well evga just responded to me:

Have you also tried a different SLI bridge as well? It's possible that the issue could be a driver bug in which case we'd recommend contacting NVIDIA to open a development ticket, otherwise we'd recommend checking another SLI bridge, just to be on the safe side.

Regards,
EVGA

So basically...gotta take it straight to Nvidia on this. evga won't touch it.

necriss
05-13-2012, 05:01 AM
Hyper is running your monitor at 120hz+ completely artifact free? Anything above 116hz for me results in minor artifacts from time to time, which can be a little distracting. It only happens in games. Tried a lot of different timings and 120hz is still no good :(

Best of luck convincing Nvidia to fix the problem, pretty sure 99% of their consumer base aren't even close to hitting 400mhz pixel clock haha

HyperMatrix
05-13-2012, 05:11 AM
I'm completely artifact free up until 125hz. Wasn't always the case. Let me see what timings I'm using and post them. Also do the test after your monitor has been on for at least half an hour. And I'm also not using the stock cable. Again, this is what works for me. Each monitor/cable/video card will be slightly different:

118

necriss
05-13-2012, 05:17 AM
lol for some reason I can't even use those timings, artifacts straight away in windows might try replacing the cable.

TheJesus
05-13-2012, 10:59 PM
Hello Matthew,

Thank you for providing the requested information

Please note that the system does not seem to have a firmware installed for the monitor and hence it is not being detected correctly and the resolutions are not being supported. I suggest that you contact the original manufacturer of the display and install the updated firmware and check the results

Again I am sorry for any inconvenience that may have caused but please continue to post us for any further queries and we would be glad to assist you

Warm Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care

Pfft, great job Nvidia, blame the monitor drivers, lol.

On a side note, I haven't heard back from AMD yet. I might be selling my 3x 24" monitors soon so I can order a normal Catleap, but I wish I could get one of these to continue help on testing with the 7900/CF issues :/ Hyper suggested donations :P

whitespider
05-13-2012, 11:09 PM
Hello Matthew,

Thank you for providing the requested information

Please note that the system does not seem to have a firmware installed for the monitor and hence it is not being detected correctly and the resolutions are not being supported. I suggest that you contact the original manufacturer of the display and install the updated firmware and check the results

Again I am sorry for any inconvenience that may have caused but please continue to post us for any further queries and we would be glad to assist you

Warm Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care

Pfft, great job Nvidia, blame the monitor drivers, lol.

On a side note, I haven't heard back from AMD yet. I might be selling my 3x 24" monitors soon so I can order a normal Catleap, but I wish I could get one of these to continue help on testing with the 7900/CF issues :/ Hyper suggested donations :P

I was going to suggest that we could correspond when I get my catleap. However I have a 6990. And I believe the issue lies far more strongly with the powerstrip unsupported 7xxx.

Also - Typical generic response. I guess you need to be persistent. Wording things well won't get you everywhere it seems.

Rizyn
05-13-2012, 11:12 PM
I'm hoping AMD finds a solution for this, I don't plan on getting rid of my 7970, and would like to achieve 120hz. Thanks TheJesus for putting in the effort.

TheJesus
05-14-2012, 12:02 AM
Hi Arun,

I have contacted them and they have stated there shouldn't be a need for any firmware other than the default used.

Again, this issue only affects cards previous to the Kepler architecture. The GTX680 has no issue with this. This issue needs to be forwarded to the engineers for confirmation. They will know if the pixel clock is being limited on older generation cards and not limited on the 680. However, even with the 680, SLI limits the pixel clock to the same level as other cards (possibly due to a missed change in the newer drivers/BIOS's).

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Matthew [last name removed]

My response.

No problem, I just want everyone to enjoy 120Hz and hopefully if the PCBs can ever be sourced or I find a magical place to get the extra $150 I need for these, I can join in.

Phunky
05-14-2012, 01:12 PM
118

Could you explain what and why you tweak on manual timings? I've just played about with reducing the total pixels until I got below 400mhz and could get 101hz to work but I don't understand why :D

TheJesus
05-14-2012, 03:44 PM
Exciting update on the Nvidia side:

Hello Matthew,

Thank you for the update,

Your case is being escalated to our Level 2 Technical Support group. The Level 2 agents will review the case notes and may attempt to recreate the issue, find a solution, or a workaround if possible. As this process may take some time we ask that you be patient and a Level 2 tech will contact you as soon they can to assist or point you in the right direction.

Best Regards,
NVIDIA Customer Care

waperboy
05-14-2012, 03:46 PM
Could you explain what and why you tweak on manual timings? I've just played about with reducing the total pixels until I got below 400mhz and could get 101hz to work but I don't understand why :D

Try these and see if you get one more hertz, worked for me (400MHz) :)

horizontal: 2560, 32, 20, 2692; vertical: 1440, 2, 4, 1456

TheJesus
05-15-2012, 07:57 PM
Good news everyone! I think?

Dear Matt,

Response and Service Request History:

I believe you mentioned it passes at 75Hz and 100Hz, correct? To support 2560x1440 @ 120Hz through DL-DVI is not easy. You would have to support 500MHz which is 50% faster than the maximum we’ve seen from a source and a sink device. So I don’t think you are able to do this with DL-DVI. It’s possible that Nvidia GPU is just saying that it’s running at 120Hz but really running at lower refresh rate. Do you see any difference in image quality? Less blur perhaps? What happens if you set the VSYNC in the app to “ON”, do you really get 120fps?

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,
AMD Global Customer Care

So we've finally reached the fabled land of engineers who know what they're talking about!

EDIT: I responded:

Dear Support,

On AMD cards, it reaches 75Hz typically.
On pre-Kepler Nvidia cards, it reaches 100Hz.
On Kepler (670/680 have been tested) cards, it reaches 120Hz+ (highest seen is about 134Hz before the panel reached physical limits).

The reason for this, like you mentioned, is that it exceeds the industry standard 400MHz pixel clock. Some believe this is simply left over from the original limitations of DRAM and was just never updated because there was no need. However, the Kepler series cards seem to have lifted this limitation and thus can display 120Hz+. I will mention that if placed in SLI, Kepler cards lock back down to ~400MHz pixel clock (in turn 100Hz refresh), but that may simply be a BIOS/driver issue.

Multiple people had similar thoughts of it simply saying it was at that refresh rate, but in games with VSYNC on, the FPS is displayed at ~120 and is noticeably smoother. Using multiple refresh rate testing programs, the conclusion is that it is in fact running at 120Hz and 120FPS on Kepler.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Matthew Karlovic

jezajet
05-15-2012, 09:31 PM
Nice to see a red update!
That's awesome to see you got through, fingers crossed they can get something worked our for us.

evangelionstar
05-15-2012, 10:34 PM
well done mate!

Please dont forget to point out that the 7xxx series of their cards only run to a max of 82hz single and 75hz CF which is pathetic compared to the Nvidia counterpart!

Sn0_Man
05-15-2012, 11:07 PM
Well, I'm very glad to hear an intelligent response.

TheJesus
05-16-2012, 12:44 AM
Just talked to ToastyX for a bit and decided I should clarify a few things to support:

Dear Support,

A quick follow-up/clarification:

I was mistaken in the previous email, the driver is ignoring anything over 330 MHz pixel clock, but when controlling the hardware directly with PowerStrip, the hardware seems to be able to do 400 MHz, which happens to be the RAMDAC limit.

This is enough to do 100 Hz, but without PowerStrip, we're limited to the 330 MHz pixel clock, and thus 75-85 Hz depending on the timing parameters. The pixel clock limit seems to be lower with CrossFire. We haven't determined the exact limit, but we're only able to get around 75 Hz.

Also, someone else tested the refresh rates with a camera and found the monitor really is outputting more frames.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Matthew Karlovic

Shadman
05-16-2012, 01:47 AM
I don't have a 2B monitor, but this is still very exciting news for me to read!

Technology rules!

Also, cmon AMD...where is your replies?

TheJesus
05-16-2012, 02:20 AM
I don't have a 2B monitor, but this is still very exciting news for me to read!

Technology rules!

Also, cmon AMD...where is your replies?

Red is AMD and Green is Nvidia...

evangelionstar
05-16-2012, 03:19 AM
Red is AMD and Green is Nvidia...

lol nice


remember powerstrip does nothing for 7xxx series cards nada and is they officially stated they do not plan on any updates etc to do so either.

Sn0_Man
05-16-2012, 09:50 AM
lol nice


remember powerstrip does nothing for 7xxx series cards nada and is they officially stated they do not plan on any updates etc to do so either.

Not quite true. You can mess with some of the "porches" and sync-width/polarity so long as you don't push the pixel clock past 330 or try to directly adjust refresh rate... :/

Obviously It isn't helpful, since you can use CRU to adjust the same things within 330MHz, but still, it is there.

Brian
05-16-2012, 12:06 PM
Good to see AMD giving a real response.

TheJesus
05-16-2012, 02:50 PM
Alright, Nvidia's real support has typed up quite the response. This pretty much states you're lucky the Kepler can do it, Fermi can't, and the actual SLI bridge forces the 400MHz pixel clock.

Hello,

The case was escalated to me. The 330MHz pixel clock limit is true for Kepler and Fermi when using the dual-link DVI connection. If the connection is over HDMI/DisplayPort then there is a difference between Fermi series (225MHz) and Kepler (340MHz). I don't know the confirmed tested speeds of all connectors but I do know that it's possible to get it working beyond specification. But anything beyond the specification may or may not work depending on the monitor, and result will vary with different cards.

Looking at the EDID timing you provided for this monitor, a pixel clock of 400Mhz (399.84Mhz) would be required to reach 2560x1440@100hz and 500Mhz (497.76Mhz) for 2560x1440x120Hz. I'm surprise you are able to get this to work with dual-link DVI at all, unless you are over-clocking the DVI in order to get more bandwidth. I don't see any other way dual-link DVI would work since 120Hz would require a lot more than 330Mhz. Again I suspect depending on the board, it may be possible to get it working beyond specification, but the result will vary from board to board. Its like over-clocking, some boards will over-clock better than other boards. I've confirmed with engineering and current pixel clock for Kepler and Fermi is correct.

SLI is more timing sensitive so the timing enforcement will be more strict, this is by design to insure stability. The same is true for other GPU clock specifications when it comes to SLI. Take the GPU core or memory clock for example, in an SLI configuration if the clocks are different for each GPU then the software will always default both GPUs to the lowest common clock. Another word if one GPU was running at 800Mhz while the other was running at 825Mhz, as soon as you enable SLI both GPU will now run at 800Mhz. I suspect the strict timing requirement is likely preventing pixel clock to run any higher than the default.

Based on my understanding on the issue, and my discussion with engineering, I don't see anything that suggest a problem with hardware or our software implementation. If you're asking us to up the specification on our pixel clocks then I'm afraid that's not something we will do unless there is valid reason for it. These clocks are set after rigorous engineering calculations and testing, they are set at those levels for good reasons. As for the restriction when in SLI mode, that is by design and expected behavior. If I'm mistaken then please help clarify the issues.


Best regards,
Ray

Followed by:

Hello,

Sorry, slight correction on my part with previous specification. The TMDS specification I listed below did not account for DL-DVI. The max, theoretical TMDS link clock is 225MHz for Fermi and is 340MHz for Kepler, which was derived from the HDMI SL requirements. So DVI DL, could go up to 450MHz on Fermi and up to 680MHz on Kepler. Note that these are all theoretical, the real values are determined during qual. Also note that the quality of cabling may be a factor beyond the standards limits.

The result you are reporting is in-line with the specification. Kepler is capable of the 2560X1440@120Hz but Fermi is limited to 2560x1440@100Mhz due to the 450Mhz. If you look at the monitor EDID detail timing the 24560x1440@120Hz would require 500Mhz, which Fermi is not capable of supporting. I've confirmed with engineering on these specifications.


Detailed Timing [DTD#1] 2560 x 1440 @ 120.00Hz
Pixel Clock : 497.76MHz
HBlank, HBorder : 160, 0
HSyncStart, HSyncWidth : 48, 32
VBlank, VBorder : 85, 0
VSyncStart, VSyncWidth : 3, 5
Image size : 640mm x 360mm
DigitalSeparate +/-

Detailed Timing [DTD#2] 2560 x 1440 @ 100.00Hz
Pixel Clock : 399.84MHz
HBlank, HBorder : 160, 0
HSyncStart, HSyncWidth : 48, 32
VBlank, VBorder : 30, 0
VSyncStart, VSyncWidth : 3, 5
Image size : 640mm x 360mm
DigitalSeparate +/-


Thanks,
Ray

And one more:

Hello,

I just got confirmation from engineering that the maximum speed of the SLI bridge is 400Mhz, which would explain why this is limited while in SLI mode. So it's not so much the common timing but a limit on the SLI bridge.

Thanks,
Ray

And I also got this from AMD:

Dear Matt,

Response and Service Request History:

So, how exactly can we assist you on this issue. As I mentioned before there is a hardware limitation thru DL-DVI.

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care

Sn0_Man
05-16-2012, 02:56 PM
Wow. Nice response for SURE. That is great to hear.

Jeeez AMD looking pretty stupid here.

Also, why has nobody with Fermi cards hit 450Mhz then? T_T

Shadman
05-16-2012, 03:13 PM
Red is AMD and Green is Nvidia...

And here I was thinking you guys just liked Christmas colors :P

But my original point still kind of stands, Nvidia giving a full explanation and AMD's cookie cutter reply. Oh well. Hopefully AMD will help some more

Sn0_Man
05-16-2012, 03:32 PM
You should ask if it's possible to OC the SLI bridge :D

Okay that's pretty unlikely. I'm wondering how SLI cards will output 4K resolution though? like, this makes it seem like that isn't possible... but I thought 4K support was advertised? maybe I'm dreaming.

EDIT: You could ask support about that. Are 4K resolutions supported by the 690?. And you could also express the gratitude of our 800+ members ;)

deusofhearts
05-16-2012, 03:53 PM
Wow! Very informative. Got a chuckle out of AMD's response.

Manbish
05-16-2012, 04:28 PM
So it's not so much the common timing but a limit on the SLI bridge.

So this means a GTX 690 will reach 120hz with no problems because there's no physical bridge, only 2 gpus on 1 pcb!
Or ?

whybother
05-16-2012, 04:33 PM
Send a copy of Nvidias responses to AMD. It may finally get someone outside of India to look into the case.

Brian
05-16-2012, 04:35 PM
Yeah AMD need some context.

Sn0_Man
05-16-2012, 05:13 PM
So this means a GTX 690 will reach 120hz with no problems because there's no physical bridge, only 2 gpus on 1 pcb!
Or ?

Nope. 690 utilizes an on-card SLI bridge.

EDIT: this is so Nvidia doesn't have to develop any new tech every time they make a new dual-gpu card. And so that they don't have to do custom drivers or make game developers implement anything special. It is just standard SLI so that they can guarantee compatibility.

HyperMatrix
05-16-2012, 05:57 PM
I'd bring up the SLI limitation of 400mhz has a problem, because they advertise 4k display support and a 4k display at 60hz is the same pixel clock required for a 1440p display at 120hz. So they're basically advertising 4k display support, but not if you SLI. I'd ask them that question to see what their response is. Because they really do need to change the SLI limitation...

Also ask them for an explanation of why they even bothered upping the pixel clock from the fermi to kepler line if it's still going to be limited when running in SLI?

TheJesus
05-16-2012, 09:04 PM
As to the 4K support question, I had thought the same thing, but they only mention 4K support, they never say what refresh. I'm expecting 4K@30Hz. I'll ask, but I doubt they'll change their opinion and it'll definitely only be over DP1.2. I don't think Nvidia supports 4K at all.

I'll ask them whatever, but this pretty much sounds like they just don't care, lol.

EDIT: I just re-read one of the emails, 680 MHz for Kepler?!??! HOLY GOD.

TheJesus
05-16-2012, 09:20 PM
Hi Ray,

Thank you very much for the very comprehensive and knowledgeable response!

The 800+ members at 120hz.net are very thankful for your input on this matter (they requested I mention this). AMD's support has been a little lackluster.

Anyways, as for the pixel clock. Thank you for confirming our suspicions. The DVI spec doesn't have any limitation to dual-link besides the physical copper used. One of our main questions is why is the limitation raised for Kepler cards? Also, how was the limitation raised? Is it BIOS, driver, or hardware related?

Is the SLI bridge limitation from the physical connector's limits or is it something else?

The main reason that I would insist upon raising the pixel clock limits is to support 3D monitors at this resolution since they require 120Hz. There will also be the need for higher pixel clocks with the upcoming 4K TVs @ 60Hz. Also, just to futureproof in general.

Again, thank you for your time on this matter.

Sincerely,
Matthew Karlovic

Also, figured I should email AMD :P

Dear support,

As I mentioned, this is a driver issue to a certain degree. If we do not use PowerStrip, the driver ignores anything past the 330MHz pixel clock, even though the hardware supports 400MHz (as far as we can tell, if engineering can confirm/deny, that would be appreciated). Is there a way to change this in future revisions or a patch (since this affects only a portion of users, approx. 800)? Even supporting a 100Hz refresh rate on all cards natively would be better.

This will cause an issue later on when companies release 2560x1440 3D monitors that need the higher pixel clock and it causes an issue for the people who own this monitor already. Some have considered switching to Nvidia cards because they support 2560x1440 @ 120Hz.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Matthew Karlovic

Jrule2
05-16-2012, 10:12 PM
http://www.120hz.net/showthread.php?171-hd7970-and-oc-catleap&p=3641#post3641

This definitely has some relevancy to your discussion with AMD :)

Arnotts
05-16-2012, 10:21 PM
I'm one of the people considering buying an Nvidia card just for the 100hz+ capability. I'd like a 7970 (Sapphire Dual X for $450), but if it isn't capable of at least 100hz with the Catleap a 670 is a better buy. Thanks for everyone's efforts in getting both companies to improve their support for the Catleaps!

Vega
05-17-2012, 01:55 AM
Tested my Catleap with my two GTX 680's and ran into the same freezing computer syndrome when going above 400 MHz. I can only run 99 Hz which is 398.8 MHz clock, as 100 Hz put's it at 402 MHz and starts the freezing. Tomorrow I will test if hooking up another Catleap to the other card and setting the refresh rate the same will force that card to play nice with the primary card.

Sn0_Man
05-17-2012, 08:23 AM
If you mess around with some of the blankings manually you can get to ~101Hz still just under 400MHz. If you care about that extra 1-2Hz.

TheJesus
05-17-2012, 11:40 AM
Hi Matthew,

As you may already know the Kepler architecture feature a new display engine. This brought support for up to 4 displays and multi-display gaming with NVIDIA Surround on a single card. This new display engine came with increase specification in order to support such capabilities. I suspect this is the main reason behind the increase from the Fermi architecture. Please note that the Kepler does support 4K and 3Ghz HDMI displays. This is all done at the hardware level.

The SLI bridge limitation is at the hardware level. In order to raise the limitation there has to be a new SLI bridge development. This SLI bridge limitation is well known internally, and we know this is something we will need to address. I suspect there are projects under development to remedy this limitation, unfortunately such information is above my pay scale. I did discuss this limitation with one of our 3D product manager, and if you have any more follow-up questions regarding SLI limitation then I can try connecting you to him. He'll probably have more insight to this SLI bridge limitation since this impact the product he cares most about, which is 3D. Let me know.

Best regards,
Ray

That explains the raised pixel clock.

If anyone actually cares about the SLI bridge info, I can ask to contact the other person.

Sn0_Man
05-17-2012, 11:53 AM
Haha "Such information is above my pay scale".

Well, more good responses. TBH I'm fascinated to hear more but obviously if you are too busy we have received lots of good info and any more most likely won't help us at all.

deusofhearts
05-17-2012, 12:20 PM
Haha "Such information is above my pay scale".

Well, more good responses. TBH I'm fascinated to hear more but obviously if you are too busy we have received lots of good info and any more most likely won't help us at all.

Yup. Awesome to hear the input from NVIDIA. Now we know the bottleneck is on the SLI bridge, and we also know they'll eventually address it. I doubt it's very high on their list of priorities given the relative minority running SLI, and the subset of that minority with 1440p surround displays needing 120hz.

Catrik
05-17-2012, 02:50 PM
It makes me feel sad for AMD by looking at their support responses, since their products aren't doing very well either :rolleyes: NVIDIA on the other hand gave us proper answers. Can't wait for my 670!

HyperMatrix
05-17-2012, 02:55 PM
Yeah considering the SLI bridge is the issue, and by sharing this info with the head of 3D, we can give him more ammo to bring to the table by saying "Hey guys! It's not just me and my 3D! Even the 2D guys need you to fix the SLI bridge limitation!"

Jrule2
05-17-2012, 08:02 PM
Excuse my lack of knowledge on this topic..

But if the pixel clock has been increased in Kepler to allow for multi-display support then wouldn't many of the later generation AMD cards also have this same increase seeing as they have been capable of driving multiple monitors on the same card for a while now..?

And again wouldn't this SLI bridge limit impact multi-monitor setups with Nvidia in cases where SLI is used? (Say 2 GPUs driving 4 monitors)
Even Crossfire, would a similar issue not have been addressed to allow for multiple monitors in a Crossfire setup?

Haha there could be a logical explanation for all of this that I missed..

Tomiman
05-17-2012, 08:34 PM
For me sounds nvidias answer not logical, higher ramdac mhz for multi displays.
Every active display connector has his own ramdac.
Actual cards have minimum 2 Ramdacs (Possible 3 or 4, i not know)

Example the old GeForce 6800GT (Year 2004) has description 2x 400 Mhz Ramdac (2x DVi or VGA was possible)
Was possible drive 2 CRTs with 2048x1536 @ 85hz (Not Reduced Blanking)

I think the real answer is high resolution displays or 3D at higher resolution.
But official this displays not avaible.
I think nvidia maked hardware change for safety in future when need more as 400mhz.

I think higher ramdacs in hardware is easy, not more Transistors, and more mhz simple (400Mhz was normal in 2004)

Tomiman
05-17-2012, 08:47 PM
For me sounds nvidias answer not logical, higher ramdac mhz for multi displays.
Every active display connector has his own ramdac.
Actual cards have minimum 2 Ramdacs (Possible 3 or 4, i not know)

Example the old GeForce 6800GT (Year 2004) has description 2x 400 Mhz Ramdac (2x DVi or VGA was possible)
Was possible drive 2 CRTs with 2048x1536 @ 85hz (Not Reduced Blanking)

I think the real answer is high resolution displays or 3D at higher resolution.
But official this displays not avaible.
I think nvidia maked hardware change for safety in future when need more as 400mhz.

I think higher ramdacs in hardware is easy, not more Transistors, and more mhz simple (400Mhz was normal in 2004)

TheJesus
05-17-2012, 11:31 PM
Haha "Such information is above my pay scale".

Well, more good responses. TBH I'm fascinated to hear more but obviously if you are too busy we have received lots of good info and any more most likely won't help us at all.

I'll email them for more info on it. I don't have much to do, so its no big deal to me :)


Yeah considering the SLI bridge is the issue, and by sharing this info with the head of 3D, we can give him more ammo to bring to the table by saying "Hey guys! It's not just me and my 3D! Even the 2D guys need you to fix the SLI bridge limitation!"

Lol, probably. I like that its "known internally" about the limitation.


Excuse my lack of knowledge on this topic..

But if the pixel clock has been increased in Kepler to allow for multi-display support then wouldn't many of the later generation AMD cards also have this same increase seeing as they have been capable of driving multiple monitors on the same card for a while now..?

And again wouldn't this SLI bridge limit impact multi-monitor setups with Nvidia in cases where SLI is used? (Say 2 GPUs driving 4 monitors)
Even Crossfire, would a similar issue not have been addressed to allow for multiple monitors in a Crossfire setup?

Haha there could be a logical explanation for all of this that I missed..

Yes, we've discovered that a 7970 can push 600MHz+ when no drivers are provided (i.e. Ubuntu or safe mode), so their support is (sorry, no better way to say this) full of shit. I literally got a return email that DVI-DL can't go over 400MHz -_-

No, because on multiple monitors they're all under the pixel clock limits because they're on different RAMDACs (connectors physically).


For me sounds nvidias answer not logical, higher ramdac mhz for multi displays.
Every active display connector has his own ramdac.
Actual cards have minimum 2 Ramdacs (Possible 3 or 4, i not know)

Example the old GeForce 6800GT (Year 2004) has description 2x 400 Mhz Ramdac (2x DVi or VGA was possible)
Was possible drive 2 CRTs with 2048x1536 @ 85hz (Not Reduced Blanking)

I think the real answer is high resolution displays or 3D at higher resolution.
But official this displays not avaible.
I think nvidia maked hardware change for safety in future when need more as 400mhz.

I think higher ramdacs in hardware is easy, not more Transistors, and more mhz simple (400Mhz was normal in 2004)

Not true. I haven't seen any cards that have more than 2 or 3 RAMDACs (all I've seen is 2, but there may be exceptions). The other RAMDACs would be created through "active" adapters and that's why you need them for EyeFinity.

Certainly, any card can run that resolution/speed on two monitors, but if you wanted another, you would need an active adapter (i.e. more RAMDACs).

Yeah, the main issue is that these monitors don't officially exist yet (hopefully LG gets their 1440P 120Hz I saw talked about at CES out this year).


Anyways, here's AMD's latest response, ton of BS since a user got his 7970 to 600MHz+ without drivers:

Dear Matt,

Response and Service Request History:

Our driver will not enumerate modes that are declared in the EDID which require higher than 330MHz clock. Also, our hardware does not support 400MHz DL-DVI

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care

Dear Support,

That may be true on cards prior to the 7970 (I haven't seen testing done), but the 7970 was tested without drivers within Ubuntu and Windows (safe mode or uninstalled drivers), both of which allowed a 630MHz pixel clock from the DVI-DL - verified by oscilloscope.

It is entirely the drivers rejecting higher pixel clocks on that specific card as that is the only one tested in this manner so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Southern Islands (possibly even earlier cards) family could do it. They are designed to run 4K displays which require much higher bandwidth and pixel clock than this.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Matthew Karlovic

HyperMatrix
05-17-2012, 11:36 PM
One comment about AMD's 4k display support...it's a jewed version of Nvidia's 4k support. AMD only supports 24fps 4K displays. May have been 30fps as well. Either way...those require approximatley 200-260mhz on the pixel clock.

TheJesus
05-18-2012, 12:09 AM
One comment about AMD's 4k display support...it's a jewed version of Nvidia's 4k support. AMD only supports 24fps 4K displays. May have been 30fps as well. Either way...those require approximatley 200-260mhz on the pixel clock.

We discussed this didn't we? :P That was only over HDMI 1.4a since that's the spec's limitation. I don't believe that applies to DP (which will most likely become the standard connector). Either way, if they respond "we only support 4K at 24/30FPS" I'm going to tell them they're idiots and that TVs use 60Hz, why even support the displays at all...

Either way, I'm really tired of their BS answers. I hope they finally cave to that last email. Its the drivers, the oscilloscope doesn't lie.

jezajet
05-18-2012, 12:57 AM
Yea its sounds like he is just relaying information to someone who is more keen just to end the support request than follow it through. Hence the dead end answers...
Hopefully persistence will pay off and it gets escalated higher up the ladder (if it even works like that..?).

HyperMatrix
05-18-2012, 01:40 AM
We discussed this didn't we? :P That was only over HDMI 1.4a since that's the spec's limitation. I don't believe that applies to DP (which will most likely become the standard connector). Either way, if they respond "we only support 4K at 24/30FPS" I'm going to tell them they're idiots and that TVs use 60Hz, why even support the displays at all...

Either way, I'm really tired of their BS answers. I hope they finally cave to that last email. Its the drivers, the oscilloscope doesn't lie.

I just really wanted to get a Jew comment in there. :P TV's are 60hz, but...4k Displays which are mainly Cinema displays, are generally 24fps. So for those applications, it'd be a perfect match. But i'm not sure. Perhaps you're right. I just wish they'd stop dodging the issue. That's all it feels like they're doing. A policy of "how do we make it sound like there's no problem, instead of fixing the problem."

TheJesus
05-18-2012, 02:17 AM
I just really wanted to get a Jew comment in there. :P TV's are 60hz, but...4k Displays which are mainly Cinema displays, are generally 24fps. So for those applications, it'd be a perfect match. But i'm not sure. Perhaps you're right. I just wish they'd stop dodging the issue. That's all it feels like they're doing. A policy of "how do we make it sound like there's no problem, instead of fixing the problem."

My favorite part is that he blatantly stated their hardware does not support 400MHz at all... I'm about to punch someone in the face.

Brian
05-18-2012, 03:31 AM
You should tell them about NVIDIA's reponse, maybe?

TheJesus
05-19-2012, 12:21 AM
Dear Matthew,

Response and Service Request History:

Oscilloscope testing does not reflect true capabilities. Typically, these synthetic testing will show higher capabilities – higher than what our products are spec’d for, but again do not reflect actual capabilities.

Any of the current 4K displays require multiple DVI inputs, so I’m not sure what you mean by:

"They are designed to run 4K displays which require much higher bandwidth and pixel clock than this.“

The other part of the equation is the receiver. There may be some receivers that are running beyond the spec of 330MHz, but certainly none of our partners can do this today, including ST Micro/Genesis, Realtek, etc… Unless they are somehow overclocking those receivers, which is not a scenario we want to support. There are also EMI implications and other interference that needs to be considered when running at that rate. Pushing our DVI link rate above the HW spec will void the warranty of our video cards.

In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care

I don't even know what to say. I want to just respond and tell them they're a bunch of idiots, but I don't think that's appropriate.

TheJesus
05-19-2012, 01:16 AM
Dear Support,

I should've made this more clear. The testing was done with and without drivers. The only time there was a limitation was when drivers were installed. So it is actual capabilities, there is just an artificial limitation from the drivers.

I was under the impression that 4K was supported via one connector from the 7970's description "With full support for 3GHz HDMI and DisplayPort 1.2 HBR2, the AMD Radeon HD 7970 is set to drive next generation displays at up to 4K resolution." Why would the card not be designed to run the displays from one connector? I'm sure those TVs were early prototypes designed to be backwards compatible with old interfaces, but DP1.2 supports 4K over one cable officially.

Which spec exactly calls for 330MHz? DVI-DL has no limitation besides the copper used, if that's what you're referring to. The chip driving these monitors is a LG TL2423WC 01TLL-0039A. The biggest reason this should be changed is due to the increase in high pixel density and 3D displays on the market. With 3D solutions, the monitor is typically 120Hz unless using polarized, but since the most accepted technology is active-shutter currently, they'll be 120Hz.

If there is some higher level of interference being created by the cards or monitors, no one has reported any issues with other electronics near it.

If there is a way to remove the limitation and void the warranty, people will still want it. I can place tons of disclaimers and warnings about the warranty and support being voided. The same thing is stated about overclocking the video cards in the first place, but Catalyst Control Center has Overdrive built-in. The AMD owners that have these monitors would like the choice to do so. Some of them have switched to Nvidia because their drivers aren't locking the limits.

I have discussed the exact same issue with Nvidia support and they stated that the pixel clock was raised on Kepler for their new 3+1 monitor support, but the SLI bridge still limits to 400MHz (which they stated is known internally and already have multiple solutions being developed to fix it). They also have no intention of changing the pixel clock limits officially, but their software doesn't limit the pixel clock. I can forward their responses if you're interested.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Matthew Karlovic

I so wanted to slide in "I can forward their responses if you're interested to see what real support looks like." Lmao.

ToastyX
05-19-2012, 02:04 AM
This is the dual-link receiver being used in the monitor:

http://www.epmi.com.tw/news.php?id=102
http://www.epmi.com.tw/sayapro03.php?id=93

It officially supports up to 450 MHz with four LVDS ports supporting up to 165 MHz each. The DVI board on this monitor uses all four LVDS ports, which means it can technically handle up to 660 MHz.

Also, based on what NVIDIA has said, any card that supports HDMI 1.3+ should be able to handle up to 340 MHz on a single link, which allows up to 680 MHz with dual link.

TheJesus
05-19-2012, 02:35 AM
This is the dual-link receiver being used in the monitor:

http://www.epmi.com.tw/news.php?id=102
http://www.epmi.com.tw/sayapro03.php?id=93

It officially supports up to 450 MHz with four LVDS ports supporting up to 165 MHz each. The DVI board on this monitor uses all four LVDS ports, which means it can technically handle up to 660 MHz.

Also, based on what NVIDIA has said, any card that supports HDMI 1.3+ should be able to handle up to 340 MHz on a single link, which allows up to 680 MHz with dual link.

I'll make sure to include that with the next email and tell them to get better partners.

There's no issue with the hardware on the 7970 since any setup (Ubuntu or safe mode) that doesn't have the AMD drivers installed can clear 630MHz pixel clock on the oscilloscope. They don't want to admit for some reason that their already terrible drivers are even more terrible.

BaldMan
05-19-2012, 04:19 AM
They don't want to admit for some reason that their already terrible drivers are even more terrible.

Keep up the good work ppls. I am watching to see your outcome on this. I may just have to switch teams earlier than I was going to because of your efforts. Really appreciated.

brokn9
05-19-2012, 02:07 PM
Great work guys. Im sitting here laughing my ass of at these stupid responses from AMD. I'm glad I have a NVIDIA card, sorry AMD guys:S

Shadman
05-20-2012, 05:00 AM
Great work guys. Im sitting here laughing my ass of at these stupid responses from AMD. I'm glad I have a NVIDIA card, sorry AMD guys:S

Pretty much this lol.

waperboy
05-22-2012, 03:21 PM
I can sadly report that the nVidia Linux drivers seems unwilling to accept any mode that puts the pixel clock above 400MHz even for GTX 680 - just spent the evening trying :(

waperboy
05-24-2012, 01:26 PM
I can sadly report that the nVidia Linux drivers seems unwilling to accept any mode that puts the pixel clock above 400MHz even for GTX 680 - just spent the evening trying :(

I complained about this on the nVidia linux forum, and got a reply from an nVidia rep saying that they filed it in their bug-track system with ID 990023 :)

evangelionstar
05-25-2012, 01:20 AM
Any update from AMD yet?

I am seriously considering returning my AMD cards and getting 670s.

whitespider
05-25-2012, 11:34 AM
Any update from AMD yet?

I am seriously considering returning my AMD cards and getting 670s.

Extremely happy with my single gtx 670, quite possibly the best card I have ever owned. And i have owned MANY.

Sneaky
05-25-2012, 12:30 PM
Extremely happy with my single gtx 670, quite possibly the best card I have ever owned. And i have owned MANY.
I feel the same about my GTX 580 3gb .... really excited about upgrading when funds allow, I'm guessing the next gen of cards will be out by then lol

spikestabber
05-25-2012, 01:58 PM
I can sadly report that the nVidia Linux drivers seems unwilling to accept any mode that puts the pixel clock above 400MHz even for GTX 680 - just spent the evening trying :(

Only after I told them about the post in this thread that NVIDIA engineers saying it can be done.

The calls for >400MHz got ignored by the Linux devs in a previous thread when the beans in this thread on 120hz.net didn't yet exist.

TheJesus
05-28-2012, 01:26 AM
Dear Matther,

I will try to get more information from our engineering department. Are you an end-user, reseller or system integrator?

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care

I didn't know my name was Matther, thanks guys. I got this awhile back but I was out of town and only had DSL, so I didn't feel like spending 15 minutes trying to post this. Anyways, I feel like I should say end-user, but that might not get the proper attention. Opinions?

NightFox
05-28-2012, 02:46 AM
dear matther
i didn't know my name was matther, thanks guys.
LOL. They're completely mad.

HyperMatrix
05-28-2012, 02:47 AM
It's cute. You're on a nickname basis with AMD tech support. :P

Shadman
05-28-2012, 03:07 AM
Dear Matther,

I will try to get more information from our engineering department. Are you an end-user, reseller or system integrator?

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care

I didn't know my name was Matther, thanks guys. I got this awhile back but I was out of town and only had DSL, so I didn't feel like spending 15 minutes trying to post this. Anyways, I feel like I should say end-user, but that might not get the proper attention. Opinions?

Yeah, you are an end-user, but I wouldn't say that. Just say you're part of this community that is leading people with these 120hz-capable monitors I guess. Required a bit of explanation.

Arnotts
05-28-2012, 06:34 AM
You could say you're an end-user, but you're heavily involved with the 120hz.net website which deals with the sale of the overclock-able monitors in question.

Sneaky
05-28-2012, 08:20 AM
Tell them you are a Representative of a Community (1000+ members and growing) of 120Hz Monitor Users. ;)
Or you could just tell them you are Jesus and if they don't help you, you'll bring the wrath of God upon them LOL! :p

TheJesus
05-29-2012, 05:02 AM
Dear Support,

I am an end-user and am involved with a community of ~1000 other people invested in getting this to work.

Also, here are links to the dual-link receiver being used:

http://www.epmi.com.tw/news.php?id=102
http://www.epmi.com.tw/sayapro03.php?id=93

It officially supports up to 450 MHz with four LVDS ports supporting up to 165 MHz each. The DVI board on this monitor uses all four LVDS ports, which means it can technically handle up to 660 MHz.

Also, based on what NVIDIA has said, any card that supports HDMI 1.3+ should be able to handle up to 340 MHz on a single link, which allows up to 680 MHz with dual link.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Matthew Karlovic

That's my response, God only knows what happens now.

Junkboy
05-29-2012, 05:27 AM
Dear Support,

I am an end-user and am involved with a community of ~1000 other people invested in getting this to work.

Also, here are links to the dual-link receiver being used:

http://www.epmi.com.tw/news.php?id=102
http://www.epmi.com.tw/sayapro03.php?id=93

It officially supports up to 450 MHz with four LVDS ports supporting up to 165 MHz each. The DVI board on this monitor uses all four LVDS ports, which means it can technically handle up to 660 MHz.

Also, based on what NVIDIA has said, any card that supports HDMI 1.3+ should be able to handle up to 340 MHz on a single link, which allows up to 680 MHz with dual link.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Matthew Karlovic

That's my response, God only knows what happens now.

Best case scenario, they give you a new nickname!!!!! I like something like Marrhew or maybe Matthiuew, I like either but let's see what AMD comes up with.

Davion
05-31-2012, 02:24 AM
You should tell them your representing a 1000+ community instead of a end-user :P

Still, hopefully we get some positives soon. Fingers crossed eh? Thanks thejesus for representing the AMD community here!

TheJesus
06-02-2012, 05:13 PM
Dear Matt,

AMD does not enable non-validated configurations such as 2560x1440 @ 120Hz over DL-DVI. We don’t enable these non-validated configurations due to the potential interoperability issues in the field, as well as EMI concerns at these DVI speeds.

Best regards,
AMD Global Customer Care

I guess that's the end then.

HyperMatrix
06-02-2012, 06:21 PM
So AMD are douchebags. And refuse to do something that their completion not only supports but has added functionality for in their control panel. Now if anyone else buys AMD cards, you only have yourself to blame. But on the plus side...for $110 you can get a dldvi to dp adapter that runs at 107hz.

ToastyX
06-02-2012, 06:29 PM
It's not the end. I just managed to edit the driver to allow higher refresh rates:

http://www.toastyx.net/100hz.png

I'm going to do some more testing...

siberx
06-02-2012, 06:56 PM
It's not the end. I just managed to edit the driver to allow higher refresh rates:

Exciting stuff! Keep us posted.

KyesaRRi
06-02-2012, 07:55 PM
Wow that's great man keep it up!

ToastyX
06-02-2012, 08:17 PM
Funny enough, I'm hitting a new limit of 450 MHz, so I can't get 120 Hz to show up yet. I'll see if I can find a way around that.

450 MHz is enough to get 115 Hz, which I was able to verify with a camera and PowerStrip, so the modified driver is actually able to go higher than PowerStrip.

Vega
06-02-2012, 08:49 PM
Dear Matt,

AMD does not enable non-validated configurations such as 2560x1440 @ 120Hz over DL-DVI. We don’t enable these non-validated configurations due to the potential interoperability issues in the field, as well as EMI concerns at these DVI speeds.

Best regards,
AMD Global Customer Care

I guess that's the end then.

I had a feeling that would be the answer. They are going to be sticklers and say 2x 165 MHz of DVI is the "standard limit" and not budge. Basically just a bunch of BS, they don't want to put the work in to change it.


Funny enough, I'm hitting a new limit of 450 MHz, so I can't get 120 Hz to show up yet. I'll see if I can find a way around that.

450 MHz is enough to get 115 Hz, which I was able to verify with a camera and PowerStrip, so the modified driver is actually able to go higher than PowerStrip.

I got real excited until I saw it was a 5670 and not a 79xx series. Unless you are using some super old drivers or something? I think virtually everyone running one of these screens will run 79xx series if they have AMD. Still the DP-DVI adapter I tested can do 107 Hz or so so it isn't a complete loss for AMD users unless you run Eyefinity and are forced to use one or more DVI ports.

ToastyX
06-02-2012, 09:05 PM
I got real excited until I saw it was a 5670 and not a 79xx series.
That won't matter. They all use the same driver, and the limit is based on the connection, not the card. I'm currently messing with 12.4.

Vega
06-02-2012, 09:31 PM
That won't matter. They all use the same driver, and the limit is based on the connection, not the card. I'm currently messing with 12.4.

Sweet. I also have some good news (12.6a):


1x DVI-D, 1x DP-DVI-D

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o139/callsign_vega/CatleapEyefinity.jpg

BaldMan
06-02-2012, 09:47 PM
Wow ! Nice work guys.

ToastyX
06-02-2012, 10:12 PM
Good news: I managed to remove the 450 MHz limit, but I haven't found a perfectly stable 120 Hz timing yet.

Bad news: It seems using an unsigned video driver causes HDCP support to be disabled. :(

http://www.toastyx.net/120hz.png

Vega
06-02-2012, 11:01 PM
Good news: I managed to remove the 450 MHz limit, but I haven't found a perfectly stable 120 Hz timing yet.

Bad news: It seems using an unsigned video driver causes HDCP support to be disabled. :(

http://www.toastyx.net/120hz.png

Can't wait to hear how you accomplished this. Personally I couldn't care less about HDCP but I know some might.

My Eyefinity test is somewhat of a bust. I've noticed that in clone mode, it will "say" it's running at the higher refresh rate for both, but the DVI port one will still max out at 85 Hz and the DP to DVI adapter one will run at the higher refresh rate. So you could have say an 3x1 eyefinity setup with two screens running at 100+ Hz and one screen running at 85 Hz if you are using 1x DVI and 2x DP to DVI on a vanilla 79xx. If you get one of the 7970's that has 3+ DP, then you can all run them at 100+ Hz.

So with my 5x1 2B catleap project, I could run four of them at 100+ Hz and I could set the end monitor to run at 85Hz, which is much better then them all running at 85Hz. One thing I did notice while using Eyefinity with the mixed refresh rates was every time I reboot it breaks Eyefinity and goes into duplicate mode. It work's again after you re-create the Eyefinity setup. Somewhat of a nuisance.

Hopefully whatever Toasty has up his sleeve will correct this.

ToastyX
06-02-2012, 11:41 PM
If anyone wants to be a guinea pig, here it is: http://www.toastyx.net/atikmdag.zip

1. Install Catalyst 12.4 64-bit if you haven't already: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/radeonaiw_vista64.aspx
2. Unzip atikmdag.zip and copy atikmdag.sys to C:\Windows\System32\drivers
3. Run Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider: http://files.ngohq.com/ngo/dseo/dseo13b.exe
4. Enable Test Mode
5. Sign a System File: C:\Windows\System32\drivers\atikmdag.sys
6. Remove Watermarks if you want
7. Reboot and pray that it worked

This will raise the limit to 600 MHz, which should be plenty.

Vega
06-02-2012, 11:53 PM
If anyone wants to be a guinea pig, here it is: http://www.toastyx.net/atikmdag.zip

1. Install Catalyst 12.4 64-bit if you haven't already: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/radeonaiw_vista64.aspx
2. Unzip atikmdag.zip and copy atikmdag.sys to C:\Windows\System32\drivers
3. Run Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider: http://files.ngohq.com/ngo/dseo/dseo13b.exe
4. Enable Test Mode
5. Sign a System File: C:\Windows\System32\drivers\atikmdag.sys
6. Remove Watermarks if you want
7. Reboot and pray that it worked

This will raise the limit to 600 MHz, which should be plenty.

Does it have to be 12.4 only?

HyperMatrix
06-02-2012, 11:54 PM
If anyone wants to be a guinea pig, here it is: http://www.toastyx.net/atikmdag.zip

1. Install Catalyst 12.4 64-bit if you haven't already: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/radeonaiw_vista64.aspx
2. Unzip atikmdag.zip and copy atikmdag.sys to C:\Windows\System32\drivers
3. Run Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider: http://files.ngohq.com/ngo/dseo/dseo13b.exe
4. Enable Test Mode
5. Sign a System File: C:\Windows\System32\drivers\atikmdag.sys
6. Remove Watermarks if you want
7. Reboot and pray that it worked

This will raise the limit to 600 MHz, which should be plenty.

Hey bud. If you want to make a new thread on this let me know and I'll publish it to the front page as an article. This is exciting stuff. Great work from you once again. :)

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 12:01 AM
Does it have to be 12.4 only?
The file is from 12.4. Hold on, I'll make one for 12.6 beta...

Vega
06-03-2012, 12:01 AM
Doesn't work with 12.6 as I was lazy and tried it lol. Going to download 12.4.

EDIT: Just saw you are making one for 12.6 sweet. ;)

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 12:13 AM
Try this for 12.6 beta: http://www.toastyx.net/atikmdag-12.6-beta.zip

Vega
06-03-2012, 12:28 AM
Toasty you are the m*f'in man! Confirmed working with power-strip and Pixperan. I am connected through DVI only and running 105 Hz. Is it changing a few settings in the .sys file to make it work? (Fine with me if you want to keep the information close-hold) and hopefully AMD does not find out and makes a change to screw us. Every time a new driver comes out I take it the .sys file would need to be edited?

I will test Eyefinity now using DVI port and DP-DVI overclocked adapter to see if I can truly get both screens running at 105 Hz.

EDIT: The only thing I am unable to test is to see if going crossfire somehow lowers the overclock-ability just like SLI. I know that's a whole new set of variables.

HyperMatrix
06-03-2012, 12:30 AM
105? Does that mean the card won't go any higher than around 410mhz pixel clock? Also, I wonder if it can do the 105 while in Crossfire as well now.

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 12:42 AM
Toasty you are the m*f'in man! Confirmed working with power-strip and Pixperan. I am connected through DVI only and running 105 Hz. Is it changing a few settings in the .sys file to make it work?
I literally just changed two values. The hard part was finding them. There were two limits: 165000 for DVI, and 225000 for TMDS, hence 330 MHz and 450 MHz with two links.


Every time a new driver comes out I take it the .sys file would need to be edited?
Yes.


EDIT: The only thing I am unable to test is to see if going crossfire somehow lowers the overclock-ability just like SLI. I know that's a whole new set of variables.
I get the feeling there's another limit for CrossFire, but I don't have a CrossFire setup to test.

KyesaRRi
06-03-2012, 12:55 AM
I'm almost home so I can test crossfire in about 30 mins. 2 x 6970

Vega
06-03-2012, 12:56 AM
I literally just changed two values. The hard part was finding them. There were two limits: 165000 for DVI, and 225000 for TMDS, hence 330 MHz and 450 MHz with two links.


Yes.


I get the feeling there's another limit for CrossFire, but I don't have a CrossFire setup to test.

Ah, nice find on the variables. I wonder if crossfire has similar variables that may need to be adjusted, if they even can be. If the 7990 or a 79xx series card with 4+ DP and/or 1+ DVI-D doesn't launch this week, I may buy another 7950 from Amazon to test them in crossfire.

The good news is now both screens are running at 105 Hz with the tried and true mouse cursor circle on a black background. Before I could easily tell when the direct DVI connected monitor was running at a lower refresh. Now they are both the same, smooth. You can instantly tell the difference between 60 Hz and 105 with the cursor movement test.

Hyper - I used 105 Hz as that's close to the adapters overclock limit. I tested 120 Hz on the DVI connection only and it worked! If crossfire hold's up during testing, AMD might actually have the BETTER multi-GPU setup for this monitor seeing as SLI is limited to 102-103 Hz.

One caveat though and I don't know if its just a problem with my system or 12.6, but every time I reboot Eyefinity bug's out and when Win 7 comes back up again the two screens are no longer in Eyefinity, they are duplicated.

I have to go into CCC, change the Eyefinity from landscape to portrait (some weird bug there), change it back to landscape, then it goes into Eyefinity at 60 Hz, then change is back to 105 Hz. Takes about a minute to do but it's not the end of the world. Maybe a driver re-install would help with that seeing as I've dicked around with the drivers quite a bit and they may be a bit confused. ;)

Vega
06-03-2012, 12:56 AM
I'm almost home so I can test crossfire in about 30 mins. 2 x 6970

Go out and buy 79xx so I don't have to! :) Actually testing 69xx series should be good too as the crossfire interface is identical on the 79xx series as far as I know.

Wait a second Hyper, surely out of everyone on this forum someone has 79xx series in crossfire. Time to put out an APB to test this!

TheJesus
06-03-2012, 01:17 AM
I have 7950s in CF, but no monitor -_-

As for the CCC reset issue Vega, setup a profile in CCC when you get all the settings ready and then you just hit that and it goes back to those settings :)

I'm almost tempted to return the email to AMD and be like fuck you, we'll do it ourselves and link the thread.

Vega
06-03-2012, 01:29 AM
I have 7950s in CF, but no monitor -_-

As for the CCC reset issue Vega, setup a profile in CCC when you get all the settings ready and then you just hit that and it goes back to those settings :)

I'm almost tempted to return the email to AMD and be like fuck you, we'll do it ourselves and link the thread.

Uh no don't do that! They might encrypt the info or change it just to spite us. I wouldn't contact AMD ever again about this issue if we can get it to work ourselves.

As for the CCC profile, I've never had much luck with that but I'll give it a try. I think for the same reason Eyefinity doesn't work after reboot would be the same thing that would prevent the profile from activating.

KyesaRRi
06-03-2012, 01:44 AM
Pushing 84Hz with these drivers atm with crossfire enabled. Going to fiddle some more tonight.

I had 83Hz without these drivers so it possibly has done little if nothing to help me with overclocking my setup. I hardly tried to get 83Hz.

Single card i can get upto 120Hz just using CRU but the image is jumping a little so i guess it will take some tweaks with powerstrip.

Vega
06-03-2012, 01:47 AM
Pushing 84Hz with these drivers atm with crossfire enabled. Going to fiddle some more tonight.

I had 83Hz without these drivers so it possibly has done little if nothing to help me with overclocking my setup. I hardly tried to get 83Hz.

Where you not able to get 84 Hz before?

KyesaRRi
06-03-2012, 02:04 AM
Where you not able to get 84 Hz before?

Powerstrip would always wig out on me whenever i tried to get over 83Hz so i gave up with little effort / tweaking. Im guessing if i tried like i have with these drivers i would be at the same place i am at the moment.

Powerstrip is a real pain to deal with for me, even a slight change that works in CRU does not work in powerstrip for me.

Edit:

Having troubles pushing 84Hz using crossfire now =(

Vega
06-03-2012, 02:16 AM
Powerstrip would always wig out on me whenever i tried to get over 83Hz so i gave up with little effort / tweaking. Im guessing if i tried like i have with these drivers i would be at the same place i am at the moment.

Powerstrip is a real pain to deal with for me, even a slight change that works in CRU does not work in powerstrip for me.

Edit:

Having troubles pushing 84Hz using crossfire now =(

Why are you using powerstrip? Does CRU not work for 6xxx series? Only thing I've used powerstrip for was to check the Hz.

KyesaRRi
06-03-2012, 02:25 AM
Yeah tested CRU it wont go past 83Hz in crossfire i was able to get crossfire to 84Hz using Powerstrip but i am having troubles getting back to that 1Hz increase.

Single Card 120Hz is working!

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 03:02 AM
ToastyX mate you are a legend!

I have 7950CF and single card will do 120hz. Wont do 125hz but 120hz is stable.

In CF still only getting 75hz as before so there must be a spot for CF settings in this driver that can be changed :)


EDIT: CAN GET 81hz in CF.

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 03:28 AM
To have any hope of changing the CrossFire limit, I need someone with a CrossFire setup to find the exact pixel clock limit. It's likely a round number, so if 290.00 works but 290.01 doesn't get listed, then the limit is 290.00. This will involve trial and error to figure out.

What I don't get is why you two are hitting different limits.

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 03:47 AM
To have any hope of changing the CrossFire limit, I need someone with a CrossFire setup to find the exact pixel clock limit. It's likely a round number, so if 290.00 works but 290.01 doesn't get listed, then the limit is 290.00. This will involve trial and error to figure out.

What I don't get is why you two are hitting different limits.


Id be more than happy to do this. What tools/utilities etc do I need?

Damned if I know why we are getting 2 different limits lol
maybe our differences in our cards? mine are Sapphire 7950OC

EDIT: 81hz in CF

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 04:29 AM
You just need CRU to add a resolution with whatever pixel clock, then reboot and see if it shows up as an available choice. It's a huge pain because you'll have to reboot between each change (or restart the video driver by disabling and enabling the video adapter in the device manager, then reopen the screen resolution control panel).

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 04:35 AM
You just need CRU to add a resolution with whatever pixel clock, then reboot and see if it shows up as an available choice. It's a huge pain because you'll have to reboot between each change (or restart the video driver by disabling and enabling the video adapter in the device manager, then reopen the screen resolution control panel).

Oh I thought you were talking about looking at the actual .sys file......

Nothing higher than EDIT: 81hz will work on CF for me.

KyesaRRi
06-03-2012, 04:43 AM
Toasty can you not just unplug the monitor each time you test a new setting?

Edit:

My max pixel clock was 329.99

using 330.00 would not show up in the dropdown on the refresh rate tab in windows

Uploading a ss to picasa, give me a sec.
https://picasaweb.google.com/103482827413753277376/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCIaK2_7886HZHQ#5749765381144 878914
https://picasaweb.google.com/103482827413753277376/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCIaK2_7886HZHQ#5749764431321 360370

My cards are:
http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1041&pid=1081&psn=&lid=1&leg=0

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 04:47 AM
Unplugging won't always work.

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 04:49 AM
I went back and tried it again with reboots and can push upto 81hz in CF. Will not do 82hz or anything else.....

I tested it further and it will go upto 81.9hz windows shows it as 82hz but its clearly 81.9 verified by powerstrip as well. It will not do 82Hz or more.

Vega
06-03-2012, 04:51 AM
ToastyX mate you are a legend!

I have 7950CF and single card will do 120hz. Wont do 125hz but 120hz is stable.

In CF still only getting 75hz as before so there must be a spot for CF settings in this driver that can be changed :)


EDIT: CAN GET 81hz in CF.

81 Hz WTF. How could the limit be so low? It doesn't make sense that's not even 330 MHz. 1 GPU really isn't enough to run this monitor properly so this crossfire issue is a PITA. 120+ Hz single card and only 81 crossfire? Man I hate GPU companies.

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 05:02 AM
yeah I dont know whats going on Vega. I went back and tested more and it will go upto 81.9Hz but will not do 82Hz or more......

Did some pixel clock tests and:
329.92 works (81.9)
330.00 wont work (81.92)



Does this help toastyx?

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 05:11 AM
It looks like the limit is 330 MHz then. With the default timing parameters, that's 81.92 Hz. I can probably find a way around that, but I'm not sure which value to change since I don't have a CrossFire setup. This is going to involve trial and error.

Which Catalyst version are you using?

KyesaRRi
06-03-2012, 05:13 AM
Running 12.6 Beta
2012.0522.2128.36590

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 05:27 AM
Running 12.6 Beta
2012.0522.2128.36590

same

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 05:30 AM
It looks like the limit is 330 MHz then. With the default timing parameters, that's 81.92 Hz. I can probably find a way around that, but I'm not sure which value to change since I don't have a CrossFire setup. This is going to involve trial and error.

Which Catalyst version are you using?

12.6b same as kyesa.

What are you using to read the sys file? When I opened it with notepad I could see it had duallinkdvid and crossfire so the values should be there somewhere.....
Otherwise like u said it will be trial and error..

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 05:50 AM
I'm basically hex editing the file. Are you ready for some trial and error action? I have 18 possibilities. Add a resolution where the pixel clock is above 330 MHz (like 90 Hz), then try each possibility one by one: http://www.toastyx.net/atikmdag-test.zip

One of those is bound to work, or maybe none at all! Don't forget to sign the file as per the original instructions, or it won't load and you'll boot to a generic video driver. I also can't guarantee any of them won't blow up on you, but you should be able to boot into safe mode if that happens. (You might have to re-enable the video adapter in the device manager on the next boot if that happens.) Good luck!

That's basically what I would be doing if I had a CrossFire setup.

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 05:57 AM
give me 20 :)

question why is it so damned large? is there 18 files in this or something at 16kb/s will take a long time!

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 06:02 AM
Yes, 18 files.

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 06:37 AM
GOD DAMN it WORKED!

120Hz and stable but wont do 125hz.

363

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 07:07 AM
Turns out it was the very first one. I have updated the file for 12.6 beta (64-bit): http://www.toastyx.net/atikmdag-12.6-beta.zip

Try this for 12.4 (64-bit): http://www.toastyx.net/atikmdag-12.4.zip

Instructions again for reference:

1. Unzip and copy atikmdag.sys to C:\Windows\System32\drivers
2. Run Driver Signature Enforcement Overrider: http://files.ngohq.com/ngo/dseo/dseo13b.exe
3. Enable Test Mode
4. Sign a System File: C:\Windows\System32\drivers\atikmdag.sys
5. Remove Watermarks if you want
6. Reboot

This will raise the pixel clock limit to 600 MHz, and hopefully it should work with CrossFire now.

KyesaRRi
06-03-2012, 07:21 AM
Confirmed working on my end too, thanks heaps man!

HyperMatrix
06-03-2012, 07:37 AM
God damn that is some absolutely amazing news. Now if only Nvidia would fix their sli bridge.

Thanks again for your continued work and contributions to the community, ToastyX. It is greatly appreciated. And that is an understatement.

Arnotts
06-03-2012, 07:47 AM
That is absolutely unreal. Funnily enough the GTX 670's JUST became available for international shipping on Amazon. Looks like I might not even need to go that route.

Thanks a lot ToastyX and everyone else who's contributed! Much appreciated, you're doing us all a massive favour.

KyesaRRi
06-03-2012, 07:53 AM
Has the stuttering been fixed or improved in the 7XXX series of AMD cards or is it just as bad as the 6XXX series? Playtesting with a single card was so damn smooth @ 120Hz, have yet to test 120Hz with crossfire in any games but ii dont have high hopes.

spikestabber
06-03-2012, 08:29 AM
Wow, that's hilarious that we had to go through all that trouble hexediting values all because AMD wont remove some stupid hardcoded values after repeated attempts....

Congrats is in order however.

We are currently going through this ordeal with the NVIDIA Linux drivers, hardcoded values preventing >400MHz pixclock.

jezajet
06-03-2012, 08:54 AM
Just caught up on this, what awesome news! Knew there would be some legend out there to figure it out for us all. Thanks very much there will be a lot of happy amd users able to fully enjoy the benefits of this monitor now! Time for some 120 hz action woohoo

Catrik
06-03-2012, 12:38 PM
So now AMD cards are better than NVIDIA, atleast when conserning multi GPU :P cant wait to hear AMD Support's comments on this accoplishment after all their babbling with DVI limits.

siberx
06-03-2012, 01:26 PM
ToastyX: Thank you so much for this. The mod works flawlessly, and I'm now running at 120Hz tweaked with reduced pixel clock (seems to reduce an odd faint horizontal striping I get if using 120Hz directly). You have done a great service to all 7-series radeon owners, and even all radeon owners in general (who now don't need powerstrip to hit above 85, even with crossfire I think?).

Finally my configuration is complete ;)

toast
06-03-2012, 01:50 PM
Pretty awesome! I got it going at 100hz first try, no prob.

I'm having issues with flash though. Now all the SC2 streams I watch are covered in green and it jams up my browser.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/

Seems to occur with youtube vids too. Any ideas?

Vega
06-03-2012, 02:01 PM
ToastyX awesome news. So there are individual settings for single and crossfire pixel clocks eh? So this means AMD is now the best cards for overclocking this monitor using multi-GPU.

Hyper - maybe we should make a sticky for the instructions and/or download for this seeing as it will need to be adjusted every time a new driver comes out. Although new drivers will be less frequent according to a recent AMD news article. They are no longer monthly.

No more technical hurdles between me and a debezeled 5x1 portrait catleap setup running 107 Hz. :). Well of course if the 7990 has the proper output's like the 6990 had or someone comes out with "Eyefinity 6" 7970's.

toast
06-03-2012, 02:53 PM
*says my earlier post where I described my problem needs to be reviewed by an admin..? so sorry if one of them appears without the other* Bah.

Got a temporary fix... just disabled hardware acceleration in the flash options menu. Hopefully there's a way around this eventually. Confirmed with SiberX that he's seeing something similar now as well with totally diff hardware and the dll.

toast
06-03-2012, 02:54 PM
Okay, looks like my earlier post just didn't got through...

Problem: Since switching the DLL I've got to 100hz, works great. Flash video streams now show up all green and don't really work.

toast
06-03-2012, 03:07 PM
Hm, okay... sorry for triple post. : ) There's more though... I can't play hardware accelerated video at all it seems like after the DLL change. Even stuff in media player classic, h264, divx,xvid, etc.

Vega
06-03-2012, 03:12 PM
Do games play fine?

toast
06-03-2012, 03:15 PM
Yep, games are all good. Did more testing.. seems very specifically to be hardware accelerated video. We were thinking it could be a problem with hdcp? Unsigned dll? Really don't know myself honestly.

siberx
06-03-2012, 03:17 PM
I can corroborate what toast has shared; flash videos using hardware acceleration or videos played locally (tested with media player classic) with DXVA enabled show a green screen and often don't play right. By dragging the video across to my other (non-OC'ed) monitor when playing flash videos I can sometimes get the green to go away and then I can drag it back (maybe that just gimps up hardware acceleration so it works) but I can't get DXVA videos playing locally no matter what I do.

Setting back to 60Hz doesn't seem to change anything, so my suspicion is it's an interaction between the unsigned driver, DXVA and possibly some dependence on HDCP despite playing unprotected content.

Vega
06-03-2012, 03:38 PM
Do Youtube videos play normally? What if you don't use hardware acceleration? The big thing I think is that games work properly. ;)

ToastyX
06-03-2012, 03:40 PM
I'm pretty sure that has to do with the Protected Media Path breaking by not using officially signed drivers, which is the same reason HDCP won't work. The problem still occurs even if I don't change any values and only change something unimportant like a text string.

Dedi
06-03-2012, 05:21 PM
Big thanks to ToastyX!

Unfortunately 120hz not working for me (Single HIS HD 6950 Turbo 2GB). Followed the instructions and added 120hz resolution with CRU. They show up in the CCC but when activated the screen is black.

Tried
h 2560 40 40 52 v 1440 2 2 2 @120.00hz (467.12MHz)
h 2560 48 32 80 v 1440 3 3 33 @120.00hz (483.40MHz)

Will try more settings

Edit: 104hz, 108hz and 113hz are working so far, 115hz is partially

Edit2:

Working (all settings done via CRU):
h 2560 40 58 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @113.00hz (444.24MHz)
h 2560 40 56 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @114.00hz (443.81MHz)


Not working (all settings done via CRU):
h 2560 40 56 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @115.00hz (447.70MHz) -> mostly stable, rarely short lines
h 2560 40 58 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @115.00hz (448.03MHz) -> mostly stable, sometimes short lines
h 2560 40 58 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @115.40hz (449.59MHz) -> Lines
h 2560 40 54 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @115.99hz (451.23MHz) -> Lines
h 2560 40 56 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @115.99hz (451.56MHz) -> often stable, sometimes lines
h 2560 40 58 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @115.99hz (451.90MHz) -> Lines
h 2560 40 54 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @117.00hz (455.15MHz) -> Lines (more)
h 2560 40 56 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @117.00hz (455.49MHz) -> sometimes stable, sometimes single black flickering or lines
h 2560 40 58 40 v 1440 1 2 1 @117.00hz (455.83MHz) -> sometimes stable, sometimes single black flickering or lines
h 2560 40 56 40 v 1440 2 2 2 @117.00hz (456.12MHz) -> Unstable Image (flickers to black quickly all the time)
h 2560 40 56 40 v 1440 2 2 2 @117.994hz (459.99MHz) -> Completly black
h 2560 40 70 40 v 1440 2 4 5 @118.002hz (464.01MHz) -> Completly black

seems no 120hz for me at this time. I wonder whats the limit, the GPU, the cable or the monitor.

HyperMatrix
06-03-2012, 07:17 PM
Hyper - maybe we should make a sticky for the instructions and/or download for this seeing as it will need to be adjusted every time a new driver comes out. Although new drivers will be less frequent according to a recent AMD news article. They are no longer monthly.


I'm all for it. I don't want to steal ToastyX's thunder though. If he makes a new thread to list his files/instructions and updates, I'll sticky it and publish it to the front page as this is huge news. I want everyone to know this was all his doing.

Rizyn
06-03-2012, 09:53 PM
hey guys, i managed to get to 120hz but don't know why when i play D3 and set vsync on it still shows 60fps?

stuartl89
06-03-2012, 09:59 PM
*says my earlier post where I described my problem needs to be reviewed by an admin..? so sorry if one of them appears without the other* Bah.

Got a temporary fix... just disabled hardware acceleration in the flash options menu. Hopefully there's a way around this eventually. Confirmed with SiberX that he's seeing something similar now as well with totally diff hardware and the dll.

google "amd hardware video acceleration green screen"

this is a known bug that I remember rearing it's head a year or so back. The only fix I know of from that time was to turn off hardware acceleration. This happened to me on about 1000 new dell optiplex 780's with discrete amd video cards.

-S

evangelionstar
06-03-2012, 10:06 PM
The video playback issue seems to be with EVR/DXGA video playback.

Using K-lite's media classic player results in green screen like others however changing the video renderer from default EVR to any other method eg VMR, Haali etc and everything works fine.

Rizyn
06-03-2012, 11:15 PM
ToastyX: Thank you so much for this. The mod works flawlessly, and I'm now running at 120Hz tweaked with reduced pixel clock (seems to reduce an odd faint horizontal striping I get if using 120Hz directly). You have done a great service to all 7-series radeon owners, and even all radeon owners in general (who now don't need powerstrip to hit above 85, even with crossfire I think?).

Finally my configuration is complete ;)

can you post your clocks at 120hz, i'm getting some horizontal greenish lines using 120hz directly. TIA!

TheJesus
06-03-2012, 11:19 PM
And this is why we can have nice things. To make them nicer!

Yay, AMD is finally the winner, lol.

siberx
06-04-2012, 12:41 AM
hey guys, i managed to get to 120hz but don't know why when i play D3 and set vsync on it still shows 60fps?
This is a known issue with D3; with VSYNC on the game limits to 60fps regardless of the refresh rate you set. With Vsync off you will get higher refresh/frame rates in D3 though. To use vsync to confirm if the mod is working though, you should use a different game.


Do Youtube videos play normally? What if you don't use hardware acceleration? The big thing I think is that games work properly. ;)

Youtube videos play normally with hardware acceleration off, they show green if hardware acceleration is on. Basically the bug doesn't prevent anything from working (assuming your processor is fast enough to do the decoding), it just makes them run less efficiently ;)


Yay, AMD is finally the winner, lol.

Not through any help of theirs, though. Nobody mention this to AMD, I'm worried they'll try and patch it to make it more difficult.

brokn9
06-04-2012, 08:56 AM
if we could have custom made sli bridges for nvidia cards would the limitation be lifted? At a hardware level that is.

technikr
06-04-2012, 09:20 AM
This is a disappointment, I may just consider returning my 670s and going for a cross fire set up now.

Sneaky
06-04-2012, 11:07 AM
Yep, games are all good. Did more testing.. seems very specifically to be hardware accelerated video. We were thinking it could be a problem with hdcp? Unsigned dll? Really don't know myself honestly.
It has been a problem with AMD cards for a long time, I used to get that on my HD4850, then my HD4870 X2 AND my HD 6950 2GB (which is still in my other PC).
Having hardware acceleration set to on in the adobe settings makes no difference anyway ... don't worry about it.

cirthix
06-04-2012, 03:36 PM
Good news: I managed to remove the 450 MHz limit, but I haven't found a perfectly stable 120 Hz timing yet.

Bad news: It seems using an unsigned video driver causes HDCP support to be disabled. :(

http://www.toastyx.net/120hz.png



Awesome. Try the timings from my edid in my thread on catleap oc with hd7970.

Kakee
06-04-2012, 04:10 PM
Insine work ;) Now i wait for more HD 7990 release day. It is probably for me ITX build:)


http://vr-zone.com/articles/asus-shows-off-rog-matrix-7970-graphics-card/16157.html
Best card i think. "with enough connectivity to drive 6-display Eyefinity" AND best part "...two dual-link DVI, and four DisplayPort connectors.."

Kakee
06-04-2012, 05:13 PM
dp

KyesaRRi
06-04-2012, 05:46 PM
This is a disappointment, I may just consider returning my 670s and going for a cross fire set up now.

I would stick with the 670s, wait out the release of the gk110.

Having some issues with these drivers, every time i powered on my system the clocks would default to very low values and power control would be at 0.

Removed the drivers with driver sweeper in safe mode, reinstalled a couple of times following the same method. Now the speeds will stick but in order for crossfire to work i need to disable then re enable crossfire.

Might reinstall windows tonight =(

evangelionstar
06-06-2012, 08:01 AM
Has anyone noticed an issue with BF3 now?

Im only getting 32 or so fps! what is going on? anyone else getting this sort of fps too?

HyperMatrix
06-06-2012, 08:09 AM
What FPS did you normally get? And perhaps installing the new version of the driver reset some of your 3d quality/performance settings and you need to redo them?

evangelionstar
06-06-2012, 09:35 AM
I used to be able to get ~160-200+fps @2560x1440@75hz
Now running same settings but 110hz.
7950OC CF.

However since I last tried certain things changed
1. this new 12.6 driver
2. 120hz tweak
3. bf3 updated X 2...

Its really running like crap and I double checked my settings and they are the same as before..... What could it be? I did notice that when I enabled VSync (2560x1440 @110hz) directx crash and told me im out of memory WTH?


Anyone else experiencing this issue? How did you resolve it? is it the new 12.6 driver? the bf3 update? the tweak? something else?

KyesaRRi
06-06-2012, 09:52 AM
The reinstall fixed my problem, i also didnt install MSI Afterburner. My issue was directly related to the Intel HD drivers being installed, googled it after i reinstalled windows.

I have not played BF3 after the update but it was working fine with the tweaks for me, im downloading the patches as we speak but wont be playing it until after work tomorrow.

Check your cards clock speeds in CCC, i noticed my cards were sitting at 600~MHz on the core and similar on the memory; if i tried to clock above these values on the 2nd card they would reset as soon as i hit apply, even in Afterburner.

I have never had much luck with AMD drivers, when they are working its great, no issues at all. But when they want to break; which can be quite often with updates, they cause me massive headaches.

Sn0_Man
06-06-2012, 09:55 AM
I'm curious as to what GPU utilization you are getting on both cards (or only just one?)

evangelionstar
06-06-2012, 11:13 AM
The reinstall fixed my problem, i also didnt install MSI Afterburner. My issue was directly related to the Intel HD drivers being installed, googled it after i reinstalled windows.

I have not played BF3 after the update but it was working fine with the tweaks for me, im downloading the patches as we speak but wont be playing it until after work tomorrow.

Check your cards clock speeds in CCC, i noticed my cards were sitting at 600~MHz on the core and similar on the memory; if i tried to clock above these values on the 2nd card they would reset as soon as i hit apply, even in Afterburner.

I have never had much luck with AMD drivers, when they are working its great, no issues at all. But when they want to break; which can be quite often with updates, they cause me massive headaches.


What issue did you have?

Did you have cap 1 installed as well as 12.6b?

I really dont know what it is. I hadnt played BF3 in a while but using 12.5 beta it was fine and from memory I was maxing it and getting those fps. Now im getting pathetic 30or so fps.

However,
Kombustor is shows me using only 20% gpu1 and 1% GPU2 in full screen game play whereas in windowed desktop it shows 98%gpu1 n 7-11% gpu2.

Likewise when I ALT + TAB to go to desktop it suddenly jumps to 200fps etc.

KyesaRRi
06-06-2012, 10:23 PM
What issue did you have?

Did you have cap 1 installed as well as 12.6b?

I really dont know what it is. I hadnt played BF3 in a while but using 12.5 beta it was fine and from memory I was maxing it and getting those fps. Now im getting pathetic 30or so fps.

However,
Kombustor is shows me using only 20% gpu1 and 1% GPU2 in full screen game play whereas in windowed desktop it shows 98%gpu1 n 7-11% gpu2.

Likewise when I ALT + TAB to go to desktop it suddenly jumps to 200fps etc.

My issue was i could not get my cards to overclock or even to stock clocks, the core speed, memory were stuck at ~ 600MHz and power control would not go past 0%

Crossfire was not working at boot, it would be "enabled" but was maxing out with 30fps on a 720p burn in furmark test i would have to disable then re enable crossfire to get it working; and that would not work every time.

Check your settings in CCC and see if your clock speeds are. Check if disabling then re enabling crossfire works too; if not make a backup of your os and reinstall.

Kombustor using the GPU Burn in mode gives me 99% use on both cards now.

Edit: I have the "catalyst_12-6_beta_windows7" installed with the "amd_catalyst_12.6_cap1"