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oscarachi
05-08-2012, 09:05 PM
Given what we know of the GTX 670, should we expect that it is capable of pushing 100+hz on a Catleap@1440p?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1249820/wccf-nvidia-geforce-gtx-670-and-geforce-gtx-660ti-final-specifications-leaked-reference-pcb-of-gtx-670-unveiled

waperboy
05-09-2012, 12:00 AM
The findings are that - yes you should be able to push 100+ on that card, but just about - to go 120hz you would have to go 680, since none of the lower cards can push the pixel clock high enough (over 400MHz).

HyperMatrix
05-09-2012, 12:13 AM
Well the 670 is a kepler based card. So there is a good possibility that just like the 680, it will allow a 400mhz+ pixel clock, allowing you to get 120hz and even higher. But this is speculation. We won't know until someone tests it. But at the very least, as with every other Nvidia card, it will do 100hz fine.

namlocnz
05-09-2012, 12:32 AM
I've brought a 670 sli rig which should arrive in a few days, excited to see if i can get 100hz +

How do i find out if i was in the first 50 monitors or the waiting 2nd 50?

whitespider
05-09-2012, 12:51 AM
It will say on your invoice, INV. (insert number here)

http://www.120hz.net/cart.php?do=cpanel&tab=3

Furthest to the left.

addictedgamer
05-09-2012, 01:33 AM
I'm in the first 50 and just ordered a MSI GTX 670 OC from TigerDirect (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2555843&CatId=2306&SRCCODE=LINKSHARE&cm_mmc_o=-ddCjC1bELltzywCjC-d2CjCdwwp&AffiliateID=lw9MynSeamY-eO6X9bQOzzhhvrmMaBE7zw) with 2 day shipping. I'll try for 120hz+ as soon as I have both the monitor and card :)

BDestroyer8418
05-09-2012, 10:15 AM
The GTX 670 goes sale everywhere tomorrow right the 10th ? Selling off my 6 month old 6870 later today for not much of a loss $20. So i'll be on my 5770 now until I upgrade again.

Sn0_Man
05-09-2012, 10:22 AM
Yeah, some people (Tiger Direct, for example) already have some 670's listed. $409.99 from TD, so MSRP is probably $400. Given what 680 supply has been like... you might wanna make sure you can get your hands on a 670 before you sell. But if your sale is time limited, $20 for 6 months of 6870 use is a good deal!

addictedgamer
05-09-2012, 06:58 PM
OC editions of the GTX 670 are priced at $409.99 while non-OC versions are $399.99. The OC versions of the GTX 670 appear to be using the 680 board and not the 670 reference board (which is shorter). This means that OC editions are pretty much just like a 680 except for the chip and why i chose to get an OC edition. Not sure if this will make a difference in the catleap overclock they can achieve, but we'll see.

http://wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/GTX-670-PCB-1-635x381.jpg

Zios
05-10-2012, 09:57 AM
Well the reviews are out, looks to be pretty decent at 1440p but 100+hz? I dunno... what do you guys think?

Sn0_Man
05-10-2012, 10:04 AM
It is a 680 for $100 less. I'm really leaning towards picking one up when my monitor arrives... but if these disappear as fast as 680's I wont have a chance :(. Stupid fabrication issues.

Also, I personally think that if you buy one, you should DEFINITELY get one of the 680 PCB versions. The VRM etc is already super-cheap on those, and the 670 board takes it to whole new levels of cheapo. I wouldn't be surprised if these had very short lifespans (assuming semi-agressive OC). In fact, if the warranty isn't at least 3 years (on a ref 670 PCB version) I would just say no...

If nothing else, this should be only the 2nd card ever to support full 120Hz on Catleap 2B's so... that speaks for itself doesn't it?

whitespider
05-10-2012, 11:34 AM
Read every single gtx 670 review.

OC >> 680 by a few percent
Stock << 680 by about 7% average.
Factory OC << 680 by ~4% average.
Factory OC OC'ed further >> 680 by more than a few percent.

Price: Cheap enough to make SLI viable in the short term.
Value: HOLY HELL.
120hz overclockablity: I would say yes to that.
Performance Increase over my 6990: 8-10%
In SLI: 100-110%
Hz Increase over my 6990: Unknown. It will be substantial.

I will be going sli in the end anyway, 100hz = either way.


The way I see it is this. Demanding game @ 2560x1440, single 670 = 40fps on a screen capable of 120hz, Sli 670 79fps on a screen capable of 100hz.

I know which one I would prefer.

BDestroyer8418
05-10-2012, 12:30 PM
Sold my 6870 yesterday and grabbed the GTX 670 on the Egg. Only cost me $250 for the upgrade. Anyone know if I will have any problems in the future if I get a 2nd for SLI. Stilling running the i7-920 @ MB factory OC 3.2ghz haven't tried tanything past that also 6GB in tri channel

Flam3h
05-10-2012, 01:14 PM
Is it safe to say the 670 will definately handle 100hz @ 2560x1440?. Any issues with Tri-SLI?. Would it seem like a better performer for the extra money over a 690 or SLI 680's at this resolution with all AA on.

whitespider
05-10-2012, 04:08 PM
Is it safe to say the 670 will definately handle 100hz @ 2560x1440?. I would personally say 90%. Anyone disagree? I can't be certain until someone get's one - however I am extremely confident that it will handle 100hz. Strong chance a single card will do 120hz.


Any issues with Tri-SLI? Do you know if the 680 has issues with trisli? 670 will have petty much the same results.


Would it seem like a better performer for the extra money over a 690 or SLI 680's at this resolution with all AA on. 670s will give you better performance per dollar - An oc model 670 in SLI will give you similar or better performance than a 690 in most cases it seems. And you are saving $200+ getting the 670's. US. The 670 seems compatible at high resolutions and high levels of AA. Although most reviews don't seem to test 2560x1600@ 8xAA. <-- I would recommend against that level of AA however if you are aiming for a high fps. Regardless of number-of-cards.

whitespider
05-10-2012, 04:11 PM
On a personal note, in AU I can't purchase US gtx 670's @ Amazon. Amazon set 'all brands' to ship only in US. For the 680's it was only EVGA that was US only. That's disheartening because 670's seem to be going for near-680 prices over here. There are no savings to be had.

HyperMatrix
05-10-2012, 04:17 PM
Is it safe to say the 670 will definately handle 100hz @ 2560x1440?. Any issues with Tri-SLI?. Would it seem like a better performer for the extra money over a 690 or SLI 680's at this resolution with all AA on.

Tri-SLI is almost always a bad idea. Check your motherboard for details. Usually what happens is if you have a 16x single lane motherboard, you drop to 8x/8x for SLI. And 8x/8x/4x for tri-sli. So the last card is just wasted money, essentially. If you're thinking of spending $1300 doing that, may as well do a GTX 690 + a GTX 680. If that's possible...if it is, I'll sell one of my 680's and do that. I feel like a "little extra juice" would fix all my FPS woes.

whitespider
05-10-2012, 04:21 PM
as well do a GTX 690 + a GTX 680. If that's possible...if it is, I'll sell one of my 680's and do that. I feel like a "little extra juice" would fix all my FPS woes.

Can't do that. It's 690 + 690 quadsli or bust. At least that's what the nividia representative said during questions and answers in a live-review of the 690. Plus I believe I heard it in a few reviews as well. I can probably dredge them up if needed.

HyperMatrix
05-10-2012, 04:22 PM
Can't do that. It's 690 + 690 quadsli or bust.

Dammit. Are the GTX 690's the same size as the 680's? Because I don't have a heck of a lot of room left in my case. Because I'm thinking I can probably sell the 680's for what I bought them, easily, as long as I can get my hands on some 690's. And then...no issues with FPS. Ever. For a year.

whitespider
05-10-2012, 04:24 PM
A fraction longer, i believe. We are talking %'s of a cm by the looks of things. Don't quote me on that one.

HyperMatrix
05-10-2012, 04:25 PM
Shouldn't be too bad. Fortunately Asus have the extended port distance for SLI setups.

Sn0_Man
05-10-2012, 05:26 PM
So I have a Gigabyte GTX 670 sitting beside me... (still in box). When monitor arrives I will be testing to see what refresh rate I can achieve with it and with my 7950.

If my 7950 only reaches 85Hz or so, and my 670 holds up 120, then I'll have to choose the 670. Ideally I return the 670 within a week but... 85Hz is a waste with this monitor

Flam3h
05-10-2012, 06:39 PM
Tri-SLI is almost always a bad idea. Check your motherboard for details. Usually what happens is if you have a 16x single lane motherboard, you drop to 8x/8x for SLI. And 8x/8x/4x for tri-sli. So the last card is just wasted money, essentially. If you're thinking of spending $1300 doing that, may as well do a GTX 690 + a GTX 680. If that's possible...if it is, I'll sell one of my 680's and do that. I feel like a "little extra juice" would fix all my FPS woes.

I was looking at the EVGA Z77 FTW. http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26690-evga-z77-ftw-flagship-lga-1155-motherboard-announced . They seem to have a new PLX chip, which supports upto quad-SLI creating 40 lanes. It seems on Tri-SLI it would run 16x 8x 8x. Although Ivy Bridge can only physically support 16 lanes, I've read (whether correct or not) it's a lot better than the previous NF200 on the Z68 because of the extra bandwidth of PCI-e 3.0 and use of lower compression. Some banter seems to be saying perhaps a 1-2% loss in performance.

If that was the case and the board was capable. I would be looking at the best performance / cost of getting near SLI-680 performance.

I was comparing 3x 670-SLI (if only 2 cards were an option then probably 680-SLI or 690) with 2x 680-SLI or 1x 690. Assuming that the cost of the 3x 670's would probably be 20% more than the 680's or 690.

Still undecided on what to buy, seem to be thinking of building a PC around a monitor :-).

whitespider
05-10-2012, 09:57 PM
So I have a Gigabyte GTX 670 sitting beside me... (still in box). When monitor arrives I will be testing to see what refresh rate I can achieve with it and with my 7950.

If my 7950 only reaches 85Hz or so, and my 670 holds up 120, then I'll have to choose the 670. Ideally I return the 670 within a week but... 85Hz is a waste with this monitor

The 670 has drastically better frametimes as well. I would say it's a drastically better card.

120HzNET
05-10-2012, 10:13 PM
I bought 2 - I did it - don't know why, but I did. 2. SLI. 580s going to my skeley build.

120HzNET
05-10-2012, 10:14 PM
And the stupid part is I dont think water blocks are out yet. Sheesh I'm an idiot.

HyperMatrix
05-10-2012, 10:24 PM
I would have waited to see the details about the 690 and whether it can do 120hz on the weekend first!!

120HzNET
05-10-2012, 10:35 PM
The difference is I can get my hands on 670s. If the 690 is the mother all things, then I can get one (or two even) later on, push my 580s from my work build to my son's, then the 670s to my office. By that time there will be something else anyway so it's really a never ending process - earn money to feed my computer habit (among others.) Sad.

whitespider
05-10-2012, 10:38 PM
The difference is I can get my hands on 670s. If the 690 is the mother all things, then I can get one (or two even) later on, push my 580s from my work build to my son's, then the 670s to my office. By that time there will be something else anyway so it's really a never ending process - earn money to feed my computer habit (among others.) Sad.

It's never too late to further diversify. At least that's what I keep telling myself at night to help me sleep

120HzNET
05-10-2012, 10:57 PM
I sleep fine. It's the awake parts that trouble me.

whitespider
05-10-2012, 11:00 PM
I sleep fine. It's the awake parts that trouble me.

Acceptably deep.

ANDROID2541
05-11-2012, 12:06 AM
Its the exact opposite for me scribbles. I wake fine but I'm scared of the sleepy parts

Catrik
05-11-2012, 12:25 AM
And the stupid part is I dont think water blocks are out yet. Sheesh I'm an idiot.

I actually liked the reference 670 because it seemed very easy to DIY RAM and VRM blocks, I already have some 3mm copper sheets and 8mm copper pipe waiting :) I have Apogee GT on my 460 and it should fit on the 670 too.

Conker
05-11-2012, 12:54 AM
I ordered an EVGA GTX 670 2GB Superclocked edition from Newegg, I'm expecting it to ship later today but could still cancel the order. Should I wait for 4GB of vram to go with the Catleap, or should 2GB still be fine?

I don't play the most demanding games most of the time...Dota 2, CS:GO, WoW, SC2, Borderlands, and some others that aren't the latest, but I do have BF3, The Witcher 2, Metro 2033, etc. but I don't need max settings.

How much of an effect would I see with the 4GB version.

HyperMatrix
05-11-2012, 01:42 AM
For a single monitor you should be fine. BF3 full ultra with 2x msaa uses around 1600MB.

legalis
05-11-2012, 02:05 AM
Why will we know if the GTX 690 can do 120Hz by the weekend? I am about to pull the trigger on 2 x EVGA SC 670's from Newegg/Amazon for $820 + $60 shipping, but still like the GTX 690, but no point if its locked to 100hz, 670 in SLI can do this easily and 200-300 cheaper

HyperMatrix
05-11-2012, 02:08 AM
Scribby's friend has a gtx 690 and they're going to try it out on his monitor this weekend. If it works...then fantastic. For an extra $200 you can get 10% more performance, and 20% more visible frames. =D And if you ever got crazy enough, you could always add another 690 on top of it.

Dreas89
05-11-2012, 02:41 AM
I saw a thread here somewhere that mentioned a support conversation with Nvidia and the problem with SLI-setups and also many of their cards not reaching 120hz. Also a mention of 301,xx-drivers. Can't find the thread and was wondering if anyone knows more about this. Would be really nice being able to reach 120hz with my 570 Gtx in SLI.

Found it: http://www.120hz.net/showthread.php?100-AMD-Nvidia-Support-s-Input-on-120Hz-2560x1440/page5

Shadman
05-11-2012, 03:21 AM
I'm expecting this weekend to be awesome.

ghost671
05-11-2012, 04:41 PM
So any word yet on whether the GTX 670 has the potential to hit 120Hz on the monitors?

baldbeansack
05-11-2012, 04:52 PM
I dont know what to do. I have a launch Sapphire 7970 (@1110/1570) that I bought to upgrade my 2x 4870 512mb cards(amazing if I may add, the microstuttering was terrrrrrible. I called it invisible lag before I read articles about it and had the "Ah-HA" moment). I never had a thought in January that in May there really would be 120hz 1440p screens.. with that being said, I dont know what card to keep.

I have a EVGA GTX670 SC 2gb sitting infront of me now unopened, I was planning on getting a Second card no matter what and maybe even a third. (7990+7970. I was thinking about gtx690+gtx680 until I read this thread!) but between the 2 I dont know what to get, maybe you guys can help me decide. Heres my thoughts:

- SLi EVGA gtx670 SC and in 6 months step up to gk110

- 7990+7970

-xfire 7970's

- ?

-Profit

Id be playing at max graphics and most likely 2xAA since im assuming the resolution upgrade from 1200p will make up for 4x. BF3, D3, SWTOR, are my games I play mostly.

PC:
ASUS sabertooth z77
i7-3770k
16gb Crucial Ballistix
Samsung 830 SSD 256gb
Corsair 1050w
q270 when it arrives!! (Ive had to change my pants a few times when randomly thinking about whats coming in the mail. Thank You guys so much for the opportunity to buy one)

*edit

I just read http://www.120hz.net/showthread.php?100-AMD-Nvidia-Support-s-Input-on-120Hz-2560x1440/page7 and it helped as well but I should mention that what ever card I choose to go with, the other is most likely going to my brother who will give it a happy home ( and me some money!) But I am most concerned with getting the most out of the 120hz or 100hz. If ATi can only get 85hz would that be really worth the squeeze of horrible drivers? ATi drivers have been a big pain in the last few years, I havent had a EVGA card since a 7800GTX.

I Plan to use the step up program with evga to get either a gk110 or a 4gb card if thats the only choice I have at the end of 6 months. I also planned on spending around 1200$ on gpus to power the 1440p for about as long as i can maxed.

SO another thought:

2x EVGA gtx 670 SC = 840$

+ Step up program (figuring on the gk110 being 600$) x 2 = 400$

= 1200$ + 2 x GK110's = 5 year run on gpu power?

^^ is that a solid thought?

Crizume
05-11-2012, 06:26 PM
I have a gigabyte 670 OC arriving tomorrow from newegg. This one use the same board as the gigabye 680 cards. I will also update when my monitor arrives (in first 50) as to whether I can go over 100hz. I hope it being a 680 pcb helps.I have a feeling the shorter reference pcb's might also have a limit.

Sn0_Man
05-11-2012, 07:18 PM
I dont know what to do...

Alright. There are a lot of things you could do. First off, Crossfire 7000 series cards with this monitor seems like a bad idea (max ~75Hz), and even 1 7000 series card doesn't seem to work too hot right now (max ~85), both due to lacking powerstrip support. I have no idea when powerstrip will be updated but it is possible that this could be the case for quite a while (unless there are more programs like powerstrip that I don't know about?)

As such, if you wish to buy cards for this monitor right now Nvidia seems to be the way to go. Plus, until 7970's are available for ~$425 Nvidia has the best bang for your buck at the top. Hypermatrix can tell you that it takes 2 680's to hit 100FPS at max settings in the demanding games on this screen. 2 670's should be very similar (really the cards are almost identical). Buying a 3rd card is where you start to progress towards diminishing returns. While there have not been any reviews to my knowledge of tri-670s, I would bet the third one doesn't scale that well. TL;DR: If I were you, I'd stick with SLI 670's

If you need to in a year you could add a third... although I find it unlikely that that will be the best idea at that point in time.

Rizyn
05-11-2012, 07:26 PM
I thought Hyper was able to hit 100hz with an ATI card?

HyperMatrix
05-11-2012, 07:55 PM
105hz through powerstrip. If your video card is supported for advanced timing options under powerstrip you can do the same

baldbeansack
05-11-2012, 07:57 PM
I want to hit as many frames/hz as I can and I surely plan to use the step up program to the gk110 in 6 months. I think the SLi gtx670's will be the best option. I am worried about 2gb and 2/4x AA though..

*edit after seeing Hypers comment:

Id be planning on 7990+7970 xfire if I went the ATi route. What do you think?

deusofhearts
05-11-2012, 08:12 PM
I want to hit as many frames/hz as I can and I surely plan to use the step up program to the gk110 in 6 months. I think the SLi gtx670's will be the best option. I am worried about 2gb and 2/4x AA though..

*edit after seeing Hypers comment:

Id be planning on 7990+7970 xfire if I went the ATi route. What do you think?

Are you buying an EVGA card soon? Keep in mind that step up is only good for 90 days. If gk110 was really only 6 months away, it might end up being a GTX 685 which may make it ineligible for step up as well.

HyperMatrix
05-11-2012, 09:07 PM
I need to clarify. The current amd cards aren't supported on powerstrip. You're better off getting nvidia cards for now.

baldbeansack
05-11-2012, 09:24 PM
Thanks. Now my dilema is to either return my 2gb gtx670 to newegg and wait and get 4gb versions or just go with the 2gb and get a second.

*edit

would stepping up to 4gb gtx 680's work from 2gb gtx670. Or does stepping up have to be a whole series?

Rizyn
05-11-2012, 11:43 PM
I need to clarify. The current amd cards aren't supported on powerstrip. You're better off getting nvidia cards for now.

Can't you do it with CRU like you did in your video tut?

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 02:24 AM
Can't you do it with CRU like you did in your video tut?

No apparently going to 82hz works. Tweaking the 82hz to 85hz with manual timings works. But going beyond the 330mhz pixel clock can't be done with CRU. You'd need a tool that has direct access like Powerstrip. There was some misinformation which led to my video guide beyond inaccurate in that regard.

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 02:28 AM
Thanks. Now my dilema is to either return my 2gb gtx670 to newegg and wait and get 4gb versions or just go with the 2gb and get a second.

*edit

would stepping up to 4gb gtx 680's work from 2gb gtx670. Or does stepping up have to be a whole series?

No idea about step-up programs from evga. But I honestly think 2gb is enough if you play to stick to the 1 monitor. If I had to choose between a 2gb gtx 680 or a 4gb gtx 670, I'd go with the 2gb 680. But if I were going with sli gtx 670 4gb cards or sli gtx 680 2gb cards, I'd get neither and pick up a gtx 690. Price wise it's the same. And gives you the "potential" of adding on another 690 later if you so chose.

deusofhearts
05-12-2012, 03:29 AM
No idea about step-up programs from evga. But I honestly think 2gb is enough if you play to stick to the 1 monitor. If I had to choose between a 2gb gtx 680 or a 4gb gtx 670, I'd go with the 2gb 680. But if I were going with sli gtx 670 4gb cards or sli gtx 680 2gb cards, I'd get neither and pick up a gtx 690. Price wise it's the same. And gives you the "potential" of adding on another 690 later if you so chose.

For a single card solution, I like the 680 2GB. The 4GB cards only show a remarkable difference when you're cranking the eye candy way way up, but even then, the games will be running at <30 FPS anyway. However, I see a ton of potential with 670 4GB in SLI. Still a cheaper solution than a single 690 while offering equal performance AND you get to max out that eye candy. As for 690s in SLI. Gotta draw the line somewhere lol.

edit: also if you're able to afford SLI 690s, could we throw in 4 way SLI 670 4GB as an option?

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 03:49 AM
For a single card solution, I like the 680 2GB. The 4GB cards only show a remarkable difference when you're cranking the eye candy way way up, but even then, the games will be running at <30 FPS anyway. However, I see a ton of potential with 670 4GB in SLI. Still a cheaper solution than a single 690 while offering equal performance AND you get to max out that eye candy. As for 690s in SLI. Gotta draw the line somewhere lol.

edit: also if you're able to afford SLI 690s, could we throw in 4 way SLI 670 4GB as an option?

Not a great option that way. You'd need a motherboard that will allow that. You'd need a case that would fit that. And a powersupply that allows that. 4x 670's = 680 watts. 4x 680's = 780 watts. But 2x gtx 690's is just 600 watts.

4x GTX 670 4gb also = $1960
4x GTX 680 = $2000
2x GTX 690 = $2000

Pcie lane limitations across 4 cards, higher power draw, new motherboard, new case, new powersupply (very likely...as 680 + OC'ing = roughly 850w). Just gets into a big old mess. This way...you pay an extra $20 to get the 690 instead of the 670. And without having to redo your entire computer, you have the option, in the future, to add a second card. And even if you don't, you'll get roughly 10%-15% more performance off the 690 than sli 670's.

hikikotaku
05-12-2012, 04:10 AM
I plan to use 3 catleaps in surround using a 670 or 690. I'm leaning toward a 670 4gb version (sli) just cause ill probably need the extra vram.

whitespider
05-12-2012, 06:11 AM
Not a great option that way. You'd need a motherboard that will allow that. You'd need a case that would fit that. And a powersupply that allows that. 4x 670's = 680 watts. 4x 680's = 780 watts. But 2x gtx 690's is just 600 watts.

4x GTX 670 4gb also = $1960
4x GTX 680 = $2000
2x GTX 690 = $2000

Pcie lane limitations across 4 cards, higher power draw, new motherboard, new case, new powersupply (very likely...as 680 + OC'ing = roughly 850w). Just gets into a big old mess. This way...you pay an extra $20 to get the 690 instead of the 670. And without having to redo your entire computer, you have the option, in the future, to add a second card. And even if you don't, you'll get roughly 10%-15% more performance off the 690 than sli 670's.

+1 to this except the figure "10-15% more performance with the 690". I would say "under 10%". Unless you are counting overclocking. In which case I would need to find more information about the 690 being more or less of an overclocker than the 670.

Rizyn
05-12-2012, 07:43 AM
No apparently going to 82hz works. Tweaking the 82hz to 85hz with manual timings works. But going beyond the 330mhz pixel clock can't be done with CRU. You'd need a tool that has direct access like Powerstrip. There was some misinformation which led to my video guide beyond inaccurate in that regard.

This is depressing to hear for 7000 series owners.

deusofhearts
05-12-2012, 05:12 PM
Not a great option that way. You'd need a motherboard that will allow that. You'd need a case that would fit that. And a powersupply that allows that. 4x 670's = 680 watts. 4x 680's = 780 watts. But 2x gtx 690's is just 600 watts.

4x GTX 670 4gb also = $1960
4x GTX 680 = $2000
2x GTX 690 = $2000

Pcie lane limitations across 4 cards, higher power draw, new motherboard, new case, new powersupply (very likely...as 680 + OC'ing = roughly 850w). Just gets into a big old mess. This way...you pay an extra $20 to get the 690 instead of the 670. And without having to redo your entire computer, you have the option, in the future, to add a second card. And even if you don't, you'll get roughly 10%-15% more performance off the 690 than sli 670's.

True. 4 way SLI with the 4GB 670s sounds like a lot of trouble, not to mention the issues with scaling, but $2000 for SLI 690s with 2gb vram limitations just irks me.

dzap
05-12-2012, 05:36 PM
sorry if I missed it somewhere in the thread, but was it confirmed if gtx670 is able to achieve gtx680 refresh rates?

Rizyn
05-12-2012, 08:47 PM
an updated version of powerstrips needs to come out for new series of cards please...

fstop
05-12-2012, 09:40 PM
sorry if I missed it somewhere in the thread, but was it confirmed if gtx670 is able to achieve gtx680 refresh rates?

No one knows yet but I'm sure the answer will be here tomorrow when most of our catleaps arrive.

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 09:52 PM
+1 to this except the figure "10-15% more performance with the 690". I would say "under 10%". Unless you are counting overclocking. In which case I would need to find more information about the 690 being more or less of an overclocker than the 670.

If you're curious about how I came to the 10-15% difference...it's the same platform. It uses 14-15% less power. And it has 14.3% less smx modules. Assuming no CPU limitations, it should do exactly that much less processing. :P The 10-15% variable also takes into account the 1-3% loss of using a dual gpu board as opposed to dual card sli. It should be pretty accurate in benchmarks as well though I haven't taken a look.

HyperMatrix
05-12-2012, 09:54 PM
True. 4 way SLI with the 4GB 670s sounds like a lot of trouble, not to mention the issues with scaling, but $2000 for SLI 690s with 2gb vram limitations just irks me.

Yeah. I'm waiting for the 8gb gtx 690 models to come out. If I'm investing over 2k, I want to make sure there are no vram limitation issues. :P Then I can sell my current 680's since they're selling like hotcakes. And basically trade up to the 8gb 690. And keep just the one card if it turns out the 690 can do 125hz. Or just add a second card and be set for gaming the next...probably 2 years? Since consoles have done a good job of holding back PC games.

evangelionstar
05-12-2012, 10:05 PM
an updated version of powerstrips needs to come out for new series of cards please...

official reply

I'm afraid there are no plans to update PowerStrip to support newer GPUs - there is insufficient demand to warrant the work involved.

Rizyn
05-12-2012, 11:26 PM
official reply

I'm afraid there are no plans to update PowerStrip to support newer GPUs - there is insufficient demand to warrant the work involved.

Guess I will have to settle for 82hz. Is there a noticeable difference from 60hz to 82hz?

HyperMatrix
05-13-2012, 12:06 AM
Guess I will have to settle for 82hz. Is there a noticeable difference from 60hz to 82hz?

Yes! Before I went to 105hz on mine with my 6970 I stayed at 82-85hz because i thought that's all we can get and was happy. It's still a substantial 42% increase in frames you see. So it's a LOT smoother than 60hz. :)

fstop
05-13-2012, 12:40 PM
Poor ATI users, not much love this yearon their end.

deusofhearts
05-13-2012, 01:37 PM
Guess I will have to settle for 82hz. Is there a noticeable difference from 60hz to 82hz?

What games do you play? You might not even be able to achieve >82hz if you're playing the latest games with settings cranked up on a single 79x0 card.

unphased
05-13-2012, 02:02 PM
I don't think its necessarily about that. A 120Hz mouse cursor gives me plenty of jollies. I'd switch from a 7970 to a 670 for just that. Just that one thing. I don't think you appreciate high refresh rates enough.

waperboy
05-13-2012, 02:40 PM
I don't think its necessarily about that. A 120Hz mouse cursor gives me plenty of jollies. I'd switch from a 7970 to a 670 for just that. Just that one thing. I don't think you appreciate high refresh rates enough.

I agree! Making quick circles with the mouse pointer on 120Hz is a joy. Makes mouse circles on a 60Hz look like stop-motion.

Rizyn
05-13-2012, 02:57 PM
What games do you play? You might not even be able to achieve >82hz if you're playing the latest games with settings cranked up on a single 79x0 card.

Will be playing D3 and GW2

unphased
05-13-2012, 02:58 PM
What I wanna see is for OS's to start doing some proper motion blur with UI elements. Like demo'd here. http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/ Imagine a properly blended blurred mouse cursor at 60Hz.

60Hz is pretty good but there's actually an infinite amount of detail that is missed during those intermediate 16.67ms. It's the difference between a 60Hz strobe light (how uncomfortable!) and a continuous wave.

ghost671
05-13-2012, 04:51 PM
So has anyone tested the 670s to see if they can achieve the same refresh rate as the 680s?

HyperMatrix
05-13-2012, 04:54 PM
So has anyone tested the 670s to see if they can achieve the same refresh rate as the 680s?

Some of the aussies will shortly. :)

fstop
05-13-2012, 04:55 PM
And most in the states will by tomorrow night, many even earlier. DHL promises delivery by 2pm.

whitespider
05-13-2012, 05:26 PM
Going back to the topic of this thread for a second, I ordered one of those windforce OC 670's. I'll get another one when I can afford another one (when i have sold my 6990 + u2711).

I should, theoretically, get the money I spent on this monitor and the gtx 670, back. Leaving me where I started. I just need to trudge through the nasty process of selling things to people.

davejsb
05-13-2012, 06:28 PM
My 670 arrives in 10 hours.

BDestroyer8418
05-13-2012, 08:18 PM
Mine will be here Tuesday. Sold my 6870 1GB so only cost me $240 for to upgrade to the GTX 670 can't wait.

whitespider
05-13-2012, 08:26 PM
Mine will be here Tuesday. Sold my 6870 1GB so only cost me $240 for to upgrade to the GTX 670 can't wait.

That's going to be a rather huge upgrade.

fstop
05-13-2012, 10:30 PM
I'm still debating whether or not I should sell my GTX 580 and get a 670. I got my 580 a few months ago for $200 (super deal I know) so I wouldn't be losing much despite the rapidly declining prices for them.

But I was planning on skipping this generation until I got the Catleap. The games I play surely won't need it (league, CS:GO, d3) but if the 670 is capable of 120hz it might be a worthy upgrade...

BDestroyer8418
05-14-2012, 01:36 AM
That's going to be a rather huge upgrade.

Yup I was going to sell off my i7 920 and go get a IB i7 but waiting til next year instead I can put the money where it is needed. As I mentioned before I had a older monitor on me die last year and been using a 26" 720p LCD TV as a monitor. Haven't been gaming alot on PC mostly a console gamer since that's where all my buddies play. My new GTX 670 and Catleap is gonna be beast. I'm glad I waited it out this long for a monitor. Now I can leave my PS3 to only exclusive games or the certain MP games I want to check out with my buddies.

davejsb
05-14-2012, 06:48 AM
Have my GTX670 installed now, with the Nvidia 301.34 drivers.

My Catleap 2b will happily do 120Hz :)

Crizume
05-14-2012, 06:59 AM
Nice. My catleap just arrived 5 min's ago. Waiting on UPS for GB 670.

Liret
05-14-2012, 08:48 AM
That's great to hear, was planning on getting a 670 myself for the new setup so I guess that's decided now. Thanks for letting us know. =)

Crizume
05-14-2012, 08:57 AM
BTW I forgot to ask dave. Do you have a reference 670 or one with a 680 PCB?

120HzNET
05-14-2012, 09:05 AM
Sorry to say I was not able to test the 690 this weekend - my buddy bailed on me to spend time with his family in Tahoe. What a dink. I am hoping to hook up with him sometime this week. I will post once I get something.

davejsb
05-14-2012, 09:11 AM
It's a Gainward reference 670 :)

fstop
05-14-2012, 11:05 AM
It's a Gainward reference 670 :)

So it hit 120hz on a 670? Your post is a bit confusing, doesn't seem like confirmation.

davejsb
05-14-2012, 11:32 AM
So it hit 120hz on a 670? Your post is a bit confusing, doesn't seem like confirmation.

I can confirm that my 670 will do 120Hz :)

fstop
05-14-2012, 12:11 PM
I can confirm that my 670 will do 120Hz :)

Thank you :). Order placed for a GB Windforce. Won't be a huge upgrade from my gtx 580,but the extra 20 hz should be nice!

Crizume
05-14-2012, 01:49 PM
I have a Gigabyte gtx 670 that arrived about and hour ago. After installing and setting everything up I can also confirm 120hz with no problem.

unphased
05-14-2012, 02:00 PM
I have a Gigabyte 7950 Windforce waiting for me at home (just got delivered). I could have waited ONE DAY to order and got a 670 instead.

fstop
05-14-2012, 02:21 PM
I have a Gigabyte gtx 670 that arrived about and hour ago. After installing and setting everything up I can also confirm 120hz with no problem.

Excellent news! Mines comes in tomorrow. Can't wait for this combo.

davejsb
05-14-2012, 02:43 PM
The noise of the stock cooler on the 670 on the other hand, is a bit of a pain.

BDestroyer8418
05-14-2012, 06:21 PM
Awesome can't wait.

Crizume
05-14-2012, 06:35 PM
Pictures up on Unboxing thread with results.

baldbeansack
05-14-2012, 09:59 PM
q270E 1440p + BF3 Max(all ultra and everything else pushed as far right as possible + all driver options maxed) + 7970 = 2.3gb usage (not very playable either.. but "doable" for a little while)

I wonder if the gtx670 will use the vram more efficiently and be under 2gb..

HyperMatrix
05-14-2012, 10:13 PM
q270E 1440p + BF3 Max(all ultra and everything else pushed as far right as possible + all driver options maxed) + 7970 = 2.3gb usage (not very playable either.. but "doable" for a little while)

I wonder if the gtx670 will use the vram more efficiently and be under 2gb..


I wouldn't use too much anti-aliasing. That's your big memory hog. And these monitors do well with just 2x/4x. Or FXAA with Nvidia cards.

baldbeansack
05-14-2012, 10:21 PM
Heh.. I enjoy the no jaggies. It made for one Helluvah-delicious looking picture too. a 4gb GTX670 would be perfect, it wouldnt be the horsepower holding the GTX670 back, would be the VRAM. (Id be testing on my GTX670 computer but I dont have a USB keyboard for it yet and I over looked a PS2 port compatibility... my keyboard will be here tomorrow :( fail on my part!)

Diablo3 just released 18minutes ago.. Retail copy in my hands and installing now. Sucks I gotta wait for 3am for the servers to unlock. Thanks West Coast. :(

*edit

I was running SWTOR at Max and Max Nvidia drivers on my Samsung t260 1200p screen. Not a single jagged line with 100fps with some dips to 60fps depending on what was happening.

unphased
05-14-2012, 10:28 PM
fwiw, FXAA kills jaggies dead.

MSAA is still superior quality but at 1440p you won't miss it much, plus gives you some much needed framerate by switching it off.

I'd definitely still pick a 4GB 670 over a 2GB one myself though.

baldbeansack
05-14-2012, 10:55 PM
32xCSAA + FXAA was nice, especially in BF3. at 1200p it was playable but the VRAM was at 1733mb. Im thinking I want to sell this gtx670 for a 4gb version. Itd be a huge reason I'd even get a second gtx670.

If the option is there, I want to use it.

Roberk
05-15-2012, 04:27 PM
Currently unable to get my EVGA GTX 670 past 111 Hz...Maybe my settings are wrong or something, but I followed the guide on OCN.

EDIT: Actually 111hz gets some flickering...110 is safe, though.

legalis
05-16-2012, 03:55 AM
at least you guys can get above 60hz :( My bastard 4870x2 just puts horizontal lines through my games if I OC with Powerstrip, and getting my hands on a EVGA GTX690 (need to be EVGA as I will be importing from USA to Aus and it has global warranty) is impossible!

Phunky
05-16-2012, 08:29 AM
Can anyone confirm if the 670 can do 120hz then? As i'm looking at replacing my 560ti shortly so I can get above 100hz but want to make sure it can hit it :)

Sn0_Man
05-16-2012, 08:41 AM
My 670 hits 110 Easy. It hits 120, but there are a few flickering red/blue lines every so often. I haven't experimented too much in between, because I'm expecting that with custom timings 120 should just work, but we shall see. I may have to settle for 118 or so. Obviously HyperMatrix got a better screen than me haha.

In other news, this is WAYYYYYY easier to do with Nvidia cards.

KyesaRRi
05-16-2012, 09:14 AM
at least you guys can get above 60hz :( My bastard 4870x2 just puts horizontal lines through my games if I OC with Powerstrip, and getting my hands on a EVGA GTX690 (need to be EVGA as I will be importing from USA to Aus and it has global warranty) is impossible!

You getting the card from Amazon or another US website?

Phunky
05-16-2012, 09:23 AM
My 670 hits 110 Easy. It hits 120, but there are a few flickering red/blue lines every so often. I haven't experimented too much in between, because I'm expecting that with custom timings 120 should just work, but we shall see. I may have to settle for 118 or so. Obviously HyperMatrix got a better screen than me haha.

In other news, this is WAYYYYYY easier to do with Nvidia cards.

Cheers for the info, I still don't fully understand custom timings and there effects so will need to read up about that before I pull the trigger and buy a 670 as the only reason for it is for 120hz for now anyway :)

Sn0_Man
05-16-2012, 09:40 AM
Yeah, I don't know either :D

All I know is if I lower the front & back porches etc, then the pixel clock goes down with the same refresh rate. I'm hoping that that will be enough to make the 120Hz rate work. If I have to settle for ~118, well 118 = 90%+ improvement over 60Hz :D

@Legalis: Have you tried both DVI ports or just one?

waperboy
05-16-2012, 10:20 AM
Currently unable to get my EVGA GTX 670 past 111 Hz...Maybe my settings are wrong or something, but I followed the guide on OCN.

EDIT: Actually 111hz gets some flickering...110 is safe, though.

From what I understand, the DVI-DL cable can have something to do with it - approaching 120Hz apparently approaches the limit of what the wires in some cables can handle.

Fiz
05-16-2012, 10:49 AM
Mines also stop around 110-115hz on gtx 670. I just ordered a new dvi dual link cable and hopefully I can get 120hz with it.

davejsb
05-16-2012, 12:17 PM
Can anyone confirm if the 670 can do 120hz then? As i'm looking at replacing my 560ti shortly so I can get above 100hz but want to make sure it can hit it :)

My 2b Catleap does 120Hz with my Gainward 670.

BDestroyer8418
05-16-2012, 03:00 PM
Anyone else having problems with there GTX 670 with Red Screens. I tired the newest drivers .34 and I still get the red screen. GIGABYTE GTX 670 I read some people said might be a PSU problem I'm using a Corsair HX 850w but I tired on another computer and I get the same thing.

Sn0_Man
05-16-2012, 03:02 PM
I got RSOD whenever I tried to launch powerstrip (with my Gigabyte GTX670) but since all you need is the nVidia control panel to OC the monitor, it was a non-issue for me. Using 301.34 drivers.

BDestroyer8418
05-16-2012, 03:07 PM
The problem I am having is about 5 secs after windows loads up RSOD. Some people are claiming a fresh OS install could fix the problem which I was going to do this weekend but might just do it now a see if that helps.

Sn0_Man
05-16-2012, 03:12 PM
I'd try it in a different system first... but I guess if it was in the plans already then an OS re-install couldn't hurt. I'm assuming your fans are spinning etc?

BDestroyer8418
05-16-2012, 03:29 PM
That program we had to use for the OC the Driver Signature Overrider I took it out of test mode, uninstalled powerstrip, Fold@Home and CPUZ now its working so might of been one of those giving me the problem right now. Yup fans all spinning. What a PITA I won't lie last 3 Gens I went with AMD cards and never once had a problem.

Sn0_Man
05-16-2012, 03:30 PM
I'm betting it was powerstrip TBH (especially if it was set to launch on startup) but I could be wrong.

Glad it works now.

fstop
05-16-2012, 04:08 PM
My gigabyte 670 didn't work at all at 120hz. Got a bunch of red/blue/green lines on the right side of my screen. I didn't do much testing but I hope I can fix it. Ill be dissapointed if it doesn't do 120hz.

BDestroyer8418
05-16-2012, 05:11 PM
I'm betting it was powerstrip TBH (especially if it was set to launch on startup) but I could be wrong.

Glad it works now.

Prob so I'll find out later this weekend when I do a clean install.


My gigabyte 670 didn't work at all at 120hz. Got a bunch of red/blue/green lines on the right side of my screen. I didn't do much testing but I hope I can fix it. Ill be dissapointed if it doesn't do 120hz.

I can hit 120hz on mine didn't even bother going past it.

HyperMatrix
05-16-2012, 06:08 PM
The problem I am having is about 5 secs after windows loads up RSOD. Some people are claiming a fresh OS install could fix the problem which I was going to do this weekend but might just do it now a see if that helps.

That's an issue that happens when you have Powerstrip set up on an AMD card, then switch to an Nvidia card without having first uninstalled powerstrip and erased its profile/data/settings.

legalis
05-16-2012, 07:07 PM
You getting the card from Amazon or another US website?

Amazon, Tigerdirect, Newegg, EVGA itself, whoever gets stock in my lifetime. I will use Shipito to get it posted to Australia, only about $60 postage

BDestroyer8418
05-16-2012, 07:46 PM
That's an issue that happens when you have Powerstrip set up on an AMD card, then switch to an Nvidia card without having first uninstalled powerstrip and erased its profile/data/settings.

Well that was the problem then I had CCC installed and used Powerstrip etc never uninstalled powerstrip.

Thanks

addictedgamer
05-16-2012, 09:15 PM
So finally got my monitor and GTX 670 (gigabyte, i canceled the MSI order) today at the same time. Going straight to 120hz did not work for me. I was able to get 120hz by going to 80hz for a minute, 110hz for about 5 minutes (so it could warm up at that level), then switching to 120hz. At first I had lines when i switched to 120hz, so i adjusted the total pixels from 2700x1470 to 2705x14705 (per recommendation in a youtube video) and now it's stable and looks great. I'm using the included cheapo DVI cable that had a bent pin I tweaked back into place. I also am getting RSOD with powerstrip but oh well.

Gabriel
05-17-2012, 12:56 AM
Is it finally matter the PCB of the GTX670? Because the most of them are the ones with the small PCB.
I tend to believe that all variants of GTX670 are able to hit 120Hz.

fstop
05-17-2012, 01:39 AM
I'm getting stuck at 115hz max on my GPU 670. Once I go past that I get red and green pixellated lines across the right side of my screen, from the top to the bottom.

Am I being limited by my monitor or gpu? And tips on how I can push it further? And yes, I did try warm up steps and gradually increasing the hz, getting stuck past 115.

Shadman
05-17-2012, 02:16 AM
Is it finally matter the PCB of the GTX670? Because the most of them are the ones with the small PCB.
I tend to believe that all variants of GTX670 are able to hit 120Hz.

I think on average, maybe even less than half, but I wouldn't say all. The gtx670 uses a little cheaper components in it that the 680 (and 680 PCB variants).
In general, I'd just suggest getting the gigabyte one, or a 680 PCB variant.

Roberk
05-17-2012, 02:59 AM
Well, I'm pretty much stuck at 110hz with my 670. I can hit 111 hz now without any artifacts or flickering...But anything past that doesn't even show. Just a black screen.

It's okay anyway, I suppose. a 670 barely can even hit 110 hz in any modern game...Have to pretty much lower settings to get there. Might just end up going SLI and being fine with 100 hz.

Gabriel
05-17-2012, 07:47 AM
Well,I have ordered GTX680 in order to be sure for the result.The price difference is not that big.

120HzNET
05-17-2012, 06:25 PM
I flat returned my 670s - I pulled the trigger too early. I want the 4gb versions - so whichever comes up available first - 670 or 680 - I'm getting two (SLI - I know I know 100 limit and all that - I still like it).

hikikotaku
05-17-2012, 06:36 PM
lol scribby i want 2 4gb 670's im hoping they have a decent amount of stock. Only ones i know that exist with full psb is the zotac 4gb 670

120HzNET
05-17-2012, 06:40 PM
True - the little psb looks so stubby and I build my systems for looks as well as performance (I will sacrifice a little performance for looks - just my thing). So I am leaning towards 680 SLI on water since if I cannot get a full board 670 (and I have not read about shorty 670 full water blocks yet) the little stubs will look silly IMO.

120HzNET
05-17-2012, 06:42 PM
Just checked out that zotac amp edition - fugly, just plain fugly.

HyperMatrix
05-17-2012, 06:43 PM
Is Asus still doing the light up "Geforce GTX" logo on the side of the card? I remember I had it on my 590. Thought it was neat.

Shadman
05-17-2012, 11:07 PM
Well, I'm pretty much stuck at 110hz with my 670. I can hit 111 hz now without any artifacts or flickering...But anything past that doesn't even show. Just a black screen.

It's okay anyway, I suppose. a 670 barely can even hit 110 hz in any modern game...Have to pretty much lower settings to get there. Might just end up going SLI and being fine with 100 hz.

Which gtx670 did you have?

baldbeansack
05-17-2012, 11:09 PM
Boom Headshot.... GTX670 is corrupted after 7+ hours of D3... GPUz was reading the temps as 79C and 55% fan speed... at first i thought it was the monitor that died.. Thankfully it wasnt the monitor and just the EVGA GTX670SC..

Back to the Sapphire Reference 7970.. I cant seem to get farther then 82hz... I have the 400mhz pixel clock in CRU.. just doesnt show up as an option in refresh rate drop down. :(

HyperMatrix
05-17-2012, 11:12 PM
Boom Headshot.... GTX670 is corrupted after 7+ hours of D3... GPUz was reading the temps as 79C and 55% fan speed... at first i thought it was the monitor that died.. Thankfully it wasnt the monitor and just the EVGA GTX670SC..

Back to the Sapphire Reference 7970.. I cant seem to get farther then 82hz... I have the 400mhz pixel clock in CRU.. just doesnt show up as an option in refresh rate drop down. :(

ToastyX (guy who made CRU) said apparently you can't override the 330mhz limit on AMD cards through the program. You'd need a driver bypass like Powerstrip to do it. And Powerstrip doesn't fully support the 7970. So no luck at the moment. :(

baldbeansack
05-17-2012, 11:17 PM
^^ Thanks for that info, the videos, your time, and the chance to purchase the monitor.

I dont know if I feel like getting another GTX670 if all the short ones are plagued with these issues. With a gorgeous looking display like this and atleast I can get 22mhz over 60.. I guess its not All that bad. Guess its time to start saving for the gk110.. I dont know, maybe just wait a few more weeks and see what happens with the gtx670 4gbs?

We are definitely a Niche market here. Whoa.

HyperMatrix
05-17-2012, 11:39 PM
No kidding...we should make Nvidia give our members discounts on on their cards since apparently that's all we've been promoting. :P

Shadman
05-18-2012, 12:18 AM
No kidding...we should make Nvidia give our members discounts on on their cards since apparently that's all we've been promoting. :P

Of course, on the 4GB models? ;)

mikeradio
05-18-2012, 07:53 AM
Just a lurker here. :/ For a single 120hz Catleap: Single 670 or SLI 670?

I've read that a single GTX670 is 45fps at least in almost all games, but I've also read that in order to be true 120hz, you need high/similiar fps, ie 100fps+ in order to have true 120hz. Is that true?

(Of course with 670 SLI the max is 100hz)

Thank you in advance for any advice!

Sn0_Man
05-18-2012, 08:35 AM
Just a lurker here. :/ For a single 120hz Catleap: Single 670 or SLI 670?

I've read that a single GTX670 is 45fps at least in almost all games, but I've also read that in order to be true 120hz, you need high/similiar fps, ie 100fps+ in order to have true 120hz. Is that true?

(Of course with 670 SLI the max is 100hz)



Thank you in advance for any advice!
Hz is how often the screen is refreshing. If your graphics card is working too hard and can't keep up, the screen will stay at the same Hz but it will show you the same picture until your graphics card figures out what the next frame should be. Basically, a screen will show you stuff at the rate of your Frames Per Second, up until it's refresh rate. Fps higher than your refresh rate is essentially wasted, but so is refresh rate above your Fps. Of course, Fps is highly variable depending on what game you are playing, what is happening in that game, etc etc.

It is up to you to find the right balance for yourself. Of course, you will always attain 120Fps while web-browsing or dragging windows around or coding etc, so that has to be part of it.

Also, it is possible to turn on SLI every time you play BF3 and then turn it off when you play, say, Diablo 3. I'm pretty sure you have to do it manually though, and obviously money.

So yeah, that's the best Info I can give you.

technikr
05-19-2012, 03:28 AM
Have a Zotac GTX 670 Reference model, can report that I am able to achieve stable 129hz on desktop and in games (tested with guild wars 1). The GTX560 uses the short PCB and has been stable throughout the day, going 130hz causes the screen to flicker rapidly.

waperboy
05-19-2012, 04:46 AM
Have a Zotac GTX 670 Reference model, can report that I am able to achieve stable 129hz on desktop and in games (tested with guild wars 1). The GTX560 uses the short PCB and has been stable throughout the day, going 130hz causes the screen to flicker rapidly.

This has to be the new 120Hz site record? Would be nice to see some timing details!

sfsilicon
05-19-2012, 08:04 AM
This has to be the new 120Hz site record? Would be nice to see some timing details!

I think hypermatrix hit 134 stable, but could only do so after the monitor was warmed up.

HyperMatrix
05-19-2012, 01:36 PM
I think hypermatrix hit 134 stable, but could only do so after the monitor was warmed up.

Just 125 for me. 126-135 cause minor dotted red line flashes at random.

whitespider
05-20-2012, 12:11 AM
Just 125 for me. 126-135 cause minor dotted red line flashes at random.

I can confirm this

Phunky
05-28-2012, 01:52 PM
Gave in and bought a 670 this afternoon, should get it in the morning and can't wait to see how much higher I can get and how well it performs :D

legalis
06-09-2012, 01:13 AM
Finally pulled the trigger and bought a EVGA GTX 670 FTW today of FrozenCPU, $489 delivered to Australia. Pretty decent. Went with this one over the ASUS DCUII for the international warranty and the fact I want to SLI later and its rear venting so heaps better for heat. For a $20 premium over the base model it was a no brainer ($419 GPU, $46 Postage)

Flam3h
06-10-2012, 12:23 AM
Finally pulled the trigger and bought a EVGA GTX 670 FTW today of FrozenCPU, $489 delivered to Australia. Pretty decent. Went with this one over the ASUS DCUII for the international warranty and the fact I want to SLI later and its rear venting so heaps better for heat. For a $20 premium over the base model it was a no brainer ($419 GPU, $46 Postage)

I made the same decision. I had 3 of the EVGA SC 670's on order, then they discontinued them. I then changed the order to 3x EVGA 680 Signature SC's which then got pushed back to the beginning of July.

I was then looking at the vanilla EVGA 670's when the EVGA 670 FTW's became available. Read the reviews showing the 670 FTW uses 680 PCB and runs quieter and cooler along with better clocks than the vanilla 670.

Like you I was after a reference blower design for (tri) SLI and these fit the bill nicely :). Should have everything by the end of the week (3930k, Extreme IV Rampage, Cosmos 2 etc.).

Mad-Duke
06-18-2012, 12:35 AM
Why not ati cards to xfire push past 100hz?

HyperMatrix
06-18-2012, 12:42 AM
Why not ati cards to xfire push past 100hz?

I love PhysX, FXAA, and the future implementation of TXAA that Nvidia provides. Or maybe I'm trying to make myself feel better about my GTX 680 purchase. Though they do outperform 7970's...so I am happy, I think. :P

Mad-Duke
06-18-2012, 12:48 AM
I love PhysX, FXAA, and the future implementation of TXAA that Nvidia provides. Or maybe I'm trying to make myself feel better about my GTX 680 purchase. Though they do outperform 7970's...so I am happy, I think. :P

I'm trying to decide what cards to get.. I have the rampage iv extreme so I do plan to ski or crossfire. I have always been a fan of Nicosia... but I want constant 100+Hz too.......... so hard to make up my mind

Phunky
06-19-2012, 01:29 AM
Anyone used the latest beta drivers yet? I couldn't get past 80hz with those or the leaked Windows 8 drivers.

whitespider
06-20-2012, 03:05 AM
I love PhysX, FXAA, and the future implementation of TXAA that Nvidia provides. Or maybe I'm trying to make myself feel better about my GTX 680 purchase. Though they do outperform 7970's...so I am happy, I think. :P

Those are nice features, however those are small features (imo). The reason I prefer nvidia is purely based on their frame output and drivers. This is where nividia comes into it's own. I don't know if you had a crossfire setup running 2560x1440 prior to getting the gtx 680 setup - this was my experience with the 6990. 1. - Major Microstutter issues that persistent and where never fixed via drivers (might not even have been possible due to the hardware). 2. Major delay's in crossfire support 3. The games that ran better on amd cards (dragon age 2, etc) where pretty terrible, and there where far less amd biased games that nvidia biased games.

I got my gtx 670, booted up all my favorite games and they felt utterly fantastic compared to the 6990. Skyrim had no microstutter, saints row 3 was pushing 90fps, demanding games felt smoother at 30fps on the 670 than they did at 50fps on my 6990. Crisis 2 for instance, the 6990 is a more powerful card than the gtx 670, so it gave me about 40-50fps at ultra + 2560x1440. Yet the gtx 670 felt smoother at 30fps at the same settings, furthermore - when I put my friends windforce 670 in with mine to test for microstutter (to prevent a bad purchase when I get a second card) I limited the framerate to 40fps on the SLI setup to see how it compared to the 40-50fps 6990 - and there was no comparison. It felt immeasurably smoother on the SLI 670 setup at a lower framerate. (although there was some frame loss when I set the limiter to 20fps compared to a single card)

That's the frame metering kicking in right there. The input rate took a hit (even with vsync off), possibly a fraction more than the 6990. However that's one hell of a preferable price to pay compared to the devil that is microstutter.

79xx cards suffer from exactly the same issue when in crossfire in certain games.

That's why I won't go back to amd cards until they put in some equivalent to frame metering.

laginisdragin
06-20-2012, 06:42 AM
^ while it is true that amd is distinctly worse for running 2 gpus, I'm underwhelmed by nvidia right now. They claim to have fixed the stuttering issue for gtx 6xx with the new beta drivers but it still happens frequently. Gpu usage stays at 40-60% and performance is crap. Then they have the audacity to say that it is a minor issue which few noticed, when in fact it completely invalidates a 400+ dollar purchase those with the issue.

As things stand, I would have been better off going with a 7950. Although the gtx 670 is the better card in terms of power consumption per performance, the drivers are making it unusable. I didn't buy the card to spend the summer not gaming.

whitespider
06-20-2012, 06:55 AM
^ while it is true that amd is distinctly worse for running 2 gpus, I'm underwhelmed by nvidia right now. They claim to have fixed the stuttering issue for gtx 6xx with the new beta drivers but it still happens frequently. Gpu usage stays at 40-60% and performance is crap. Then they have the audacity to say that it is a minor issue which few noticed, when in fact it completely invalidates a 400+ dollar purchase those with the issue.

As things stand, I would have been better off going with a 7950. Although the gtx 670 is the better card in terms of power consumption per performance, the drivers are making it unusable. I didn't buy the card to spend the summer not gaming.

I got some vsync stutter when playing a few racing games. Is that what you are talking about? it kind of feels like slow-down-speed-up.

laginisdragin
06-21-2012, 02:45 AM
yup frequent drops below below 60 fps while gpu usage is low, usually only to 59 fps but still a huge slowdown. It would be like buying an expensive car for its nice engine, then it decides to only use 50% of its power most of the time, ridiculous.

I would have been better off with a gtx 580 actually, could have got one used for like 270. Then it would be a smooth 60 fps. I went for the gtx 670 for warranty and since I plan to go 120hz the power is needed. Even for 60hz I figured overkill would be good since you can't put a price on a subjectively smoother experience, but it seems that I am forced to feel stupid until they fix the problem.

HyperMatrix
06-21-2012, 07:31 PM
^ while it is true that amd is distinctly worse for running 2 gpus, I'm underwhelmed by nvidia right now. They claim to have fixed the stuttering issue for gtx 6xx with the new beta drivers but it still happens frequently. Gpu usage stays at 40-60% and performance is crap. Then they have the audacity to say that it is a minor issue which few noticed, when in fact it completely invalidates a 400+ dollar purchase those with the issue.

As things stand, I would have been better off going with a 7950. Although the gtx 670 is the better card in terms of power consumption per performance, the drivers are making it unusable. I didn't buy the card to spend the summer not gaming.


Hmm...is that why the card is at like 30-50% usage but FPS is still low sometimes in some games? I had just assumed it was a CPU bottleneck at that point.

whitespider
06-21-2012, 09:48 PM
Out of the few hundred games I have tested, the majority of them don't suffer from this, and I would consider my microstutter issue with the 6990 to be immeasurably worse. I also find that gtx 670 runs the majority of games faster than the 6990, despite the 6990 being technically faster.

I would say, out of every 200 games I have tested, about 3 have this vsync issue (and they are all racing games), and out of those three games - two of them could be fixed by simply disabling vsync through the nvidia control panel - which is a totally viable thing when you are running above 124hz.

That's my experience with it however - not necessarily your experience.

laginisdragin
06-21-2012, 10:50 PM
yea at first I thought it might be a cpu bottleneck but it didn't make much sense for the problem to be so prevalent with a 2600k at 4.4, voltage on auto seems to keep it around 1.3v. I then went to the nvidia forums in the gtx 670 section and there was a very long thread about the problem.

I will agree that the card is very smooth while the problem is not happening. Previously I had a hd 6790 as an interim card and even with the settings turned down its attempt at 60 fps was far less smooth than a gtx 670 in between stutters. I suspect that the 6790's identical fps was not smooth because it was consistently inconsistent in its ability to render frames at equal intervals. This would be perceived as a microstutter. Whereas the gtx 670 is inconsistently inconsistent in its ability to render frames at equal intervals, so that it is sometimes very smooth with large delays happening occasionally.

While the previous comparison is not a fair one, the experience with the gtx 670 is almost worse just because expectations and money paid were much higher.

Mad-Duke
06-22-2012, 01:02 AM
What is currently the best and card?

whitespider
06-22-2012, 03:57 AM
What is currently the best and card?

That would be the 7970.



yea at first I thought it might be a cpu bottleneck but it didn't make much sense for the problem to be so prevalent with a 2600k at 4.4, voltage on auto seems to keep it around 1.3v. I then went to the nvidia forums in the gtx 670 section and there was a very long thread about the problem.

I will agree that the card is very smooth while the problem is not happening. Previously I had a hd 6790 as an interim card and even with the settings turned down its attempt at 60 fps was far less smooth than a gtx 670 in between stutters. I suspect that the 6790's identical fps was not smooth because it was consistently inconsistent in its ability to render frames at equal intervals. This would be perceived as a microstutter. Whereas the gtx 670 is inconsistently inconsistent in its ability to render frames at equal intervals, so that it is sometimes very smooth with large delays happening occasionally.

While the previous comparison is not a fair one, the experience with the gtx 670 is almost worse just because expectations and money paid were much higher.

There is a disconnect between what I am experiencing and what you are. Either, A: You are getting a worse case of this vsync 'stutter', than I also experience - just not as frequently or badly - or - B: My experience with the 6990 was 'so' terrible, that the bug in a few games is a -nonissue- for me.

I think it's A. It sounds like you are getting a more widespread and pervasive case of this problem. My overall experience with the 670 is positively glowing. In fact - it's the best card I have ever owned. And I have owned a long list.

If you are getting stutters in the majority of games, then that's a completely different issue. And something that anyone with standards would find unacceptable.

If, on the other hand - you are getting vsync stutters in a rare few games, and the majority are flawless - then I can assure you - Most other cards will eventually show their full hand, and present even larger issues than a handful of games requiring vsync being disabled.

laginisdragin
06-22-2012, 06:06 AM
yea it may be a bit of both. On techreport they proved that the 6990 was awful. But definitely more towards A. because it was happening every 2-3 seconds in every game before, made my eyes hurt a lot. Now with the beta drivers it happens less frequently in some games, alan wake and just cause 2 for example.

I am kind of beginning to think my card might be defective because in the witcher 2 I get 50 fps with 50% gpu usage. I then turned off vsync both in game and control panel and still got 50 fps with 50% usage. Ubersampling off. From my understanding that shouldn't happen, and is also a problem beyond the vsync bug.

But on top of that, in my single player only version of bf 3 with vsync off gpu usage actually does stay around 100% and performance is quite good. I don't know what to think.

whitespider
06-22-2012, 07:06 PM
yea it may be a bit of both. On techreport they proved that the 6990 was awful. But definitely more towards A. because it was happening every 2-3 seconds in every game before, made my eyes hurt a lot. Now with the beta drivers it happens less frequently in some games, alan wake and just cause 2 for example.

I am kind of beginning to think my card might be defective because in the witcher 2 I get 50 fps with 50% gpu usage. I then turned off vsync both in game and control panel and still got 50 fps with 50% usage. Ubersampling off. From my understanding that shouldn't happen, and is also a problem beyond the vsync bug.

But on top of that, in my single player only version of bf 3 with vsync off gpu usage actually does stay around 100% and performance is quite good. I don't know what to think.

I don't think I have any issues with just cause 2 or the witcher 2, I believe I was getting around 50fps in the witcher 2 (at 2560x1440 on the catleap) and I think precision x was reading out 99% gpu useage. If we are both running the same resolution - then surely 50% useage on your card would be about 25fps. Not 50?

The witcher 2 runs kind of averagely on a single gtx 670. I will run both of those games and report back. See if I get any vsync stutters. Just to be sure. And check the gpu usage.


Edit:

The witcher 2 @ 2560x1440 using these settings


[Rendering]
AllowAntialias=1
AllowBloom=1
AllowBlur=1
AllowCutsceneDOF=0
AllowDOF=1
AllowDecals=1.0
AllowMotionBlur=0
AllowRain=1
AllowSSAO=1
AllowScatterDOF=0
AllowShafts=1
AllowSharpen=1
AllowVignette=1
AtlasTextureDownscale=0
DanglesLimiter=0
DetailTextureDownscale=0
Fullscreen=1
MaxAtlasTextureSize=2048
MaxCubeShadowCount=1
MaxCubeShadowSize=512
MaxSpotShadowCount=3
MaxSpotShadowSize=1024
MaxTextureSize=2048
MeshDistanceScale=0.5
ShadowQuality=0
ShadowedLights=0
TextureDownscale=0
TextureMemoryBudget=800
UberSampling=0
VSync=0

Vsync Enabled Via the nvidia control panel.

Loaded a savegame in floatsam. Ran from the docks, through the village, into the forest and ran around the forest for 8-10 minutes.

Framerate fluctuated from 45fps, to 55fps, resting at 60fps for a while in the village, then going down to 40fps in the forest area. Zero Stutter/Lag. Except for vsync taking a toll on the framerate and input rate. When you are at 40fps-50fps in a game, better to turn vsync off - since the drastically higher refresh rate will eliminate 98% of the tearing anyway.

Gpu usage was at 99% the entire time.


Now to test just cause 2.

Edit2:

Ok Just cause 2. Interesting. Yes, when I turn on vsync and triple buffering via the nividia control panel, it get about 50-60% gpu usage. And my fps stays at 63-65fps the entire time. As if it's artificially capped. There is no vsync stutter, however the gpu is not being utilized more than 50-60% of it's potential.

The settings are all the highest, except ssao is set to medium, and the nvidia water simulation and nvidia depth of field (exclusive features) are disabled, anti aliasing is set to "off" and fxaa is enabled in the nvidia control panel.

When vsync and triple buffering is forced off in the nividia control panel, i get 90-140fps and the game smooth as silk stockings When I enable forced triple buffering in the nividia control panel - and then set vertical sync to "use application settings". Then enable vsync in the game options - I get 80-130fps, 130fps being the majority player. Even smoother than with vsync disabled entirely.



So my results are for the most part - No vsync stutter in these games. No gpu useage reduction in the witcher 2 - although a comparable framerate to your gpu at 50% usage (worring...), just cause 2 DOES suffer from a gpu usage reduction ONLY when vsync is forced in the nividia control panel.

Adaptive vsync has not been tested yet. I might try forcing it now. Just to see if the bug is exclusive to normal vsync via the control panel.


And final edit:

Adaptive vsync does not cause gpu usage reduction when it's forced via the nvidia control panel, it also does not cause vsync stutter, and it does it's job, enabling vsync in just cause 2 when I reach 130fps, and disabling it when I am lower than 130fps. I also forced tripple buffering, and disabled it. And neither has any tangible effect on stutter or gpu usage. It simply makes the input lag a fraction worse, and the game a fraction smoother.

laginisdragin
06-22-2012, 10:31 PM
Ok first of all, sorry, because I'm at 60hz 1080p, still waiting to buy a 120hz catleap. Also while I had settings pretty high, but certain things off like blur, bloom, depth of field etc., which I think would account for the performance difference. Additionally, upon further investigation at the nvidia forums which I probably should have done before the post, the witcher 2 performance issues were reported. An issue specific to the new beta drivers I think. Not sure what you're using.

Still, your findings are very worthwhile. In just cause 2 with vsync off the card should be rendering as many frames as possible. It seems that you have the issue, however it less frequently comes into fruition to ruin the user experience. Your card is better at judging how much power to use most of the time. I think it may have to do with how much strain is put on the card so 1440p/120hz/higher settings may actually help.

Since the problem is clearly happening with vsync off it reminds me of people at first suspecting that the problem was related to gpu boost and its "algorithm." Nvidia was quick to claim that it was only a minor vsync bug, but I now doubt this. When I first bought the card I didn't like the idea of the card choosing its clock but I wonder if it is also affecting gpu usage/power target. For example when I switch power target from adaptive to maximum performance there is no change.

I thought disabling gpu boost was impossible but then I found this http://www.obr-hardware.com/2012/05/exclusive-guide-how-to-disable-gpu.html. If gpu boost is at 1100 and with boost off core clock is 1100, 3dmark performance is the same. However even with my card benchmarks like heaven manage to stay at 99% usage. Perhaps while the gpu boost "algorithm" can boost the card, it can also dynamically reduce performance as well since I'm pretty sure I've seen times where the card goes below core clock. I will try this to see if it helps gaming.

edit: its here too. http://www.overclock.net/t/1267918/guide-nvidia-inspector-gtx670-680-disable-boost-fixed-clock-speed-undervolting, surprised this hasn't gotten more attention. Helped immeasurably to keep clock constant in just cause 2, although with vsync off it still caps at like 63 fps which is strange. Also in the witcher 2 I was getting 50 fps with 50% gpu usage so I turn off AA and SSAO and then get 50 fps with 35% usage. Definitely broken. Skyrim was helped ridiculously, was never able to play it smooth until now. 60hz is much better than I thought it was. Fraps would very occasionally drop to 59 in skyrim but I couldn't notice it visually like I could before for some reason. I left memory and voltage alone but have core clock at 1202.

LucidFrost
08-21-2012, 11:39 AM
Alright, just finished reading this entire thread and I'm still a little confused here. It sounds like some people can get a GTX 670 to run at 120Hz and others are stuck around 110Hz. So is a single GTX 670 capable of 120Hz @ 1440p?

I'm still in the research phase and will be doing a new build this fall featuring a Core i7 3770K but I'm still not settled on which video card.

One last questions, Newegg has the GTX 480 for $199, is that an option? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130759

Shadman
08-28-2012, 11:33 PM
Alright, just finished reading this entire thread and I'm still a little confused here. It sounds like some people can get a GTX 670 to run at 120Hz and others are stuck around 110Hz. So is a single GTX 670 capable of 120Hz @ 1440p?

I'm still in the research phase and will be doing a new build this fall featuring a Core i7 3770K but I'm still not settled on which video card.

One last questions, Newegg has the GTX 480 for $199, is that an option? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130759

A GTX670 with the larger (GTX680) PCB can usually hit 120HZ from what I've seen. Less so if you have one with the shorter, regular 670 PCB.

The GTX480 can only go so high, I think 85Hz, because it isn't a Kepler card. I think

HyperMatrix
08-28-2012, 11:37 PM
A GTX670 with the larger (GTX680) PCB can usually hit 120HZ from what I've seen. Less so if you have one with the shorter, regular 670 PCB.

The GTX480 can only go so high, I think 85Hz, because it isn't a Kepler card. I think

gtx 480 should be able to hit 400mhz pixel clock or a 102hz refresh rate. But if you're planning on gaming, a gtx 480 won't be able to put out the framerate you need to take advantage of that refresh rate.

unphased
08-29-2012, 12:08 AM
I have a Gigabyte Windforce 670 which is on a 680 PCB.

I run two catleaps off the DL-DVI's, one at 120Hz and one at 113Hz. The 113Hz one I generally keep running at 95Hz because it buzzes a bit at 113.

HyperMatrix
08-29-2012, 12:11 AM
I have a Gigabyte Windforce 670 which is on a 680 PCB.

I run two catleaps off the DL-DVI's, one at 120Hz and one at 113Hz. The 113Hz one I generally keep running at 95Hz because it buzzes a bit at 113.

Have you considered opening up the monitor and gluing down the components that cause the buzzing? There is a guide up for it. There is no harm caused by it.

Shadman
08-29-2012, 12:28 AM
gtx 480 should be able to hit 400mhz pixel clock or a 102hz refresh rate. But if you're planning on gaming, a gtx 480 won't be able to put out the framerate you need to take advantage of that refresh rate.

Oops, I thought 85Hz didn't sound right. but I knew 120Hz wasn't right either.
But for $200 its a decent price nowadays, but if you plan on going SLI so you DO get better performance, you would be better off investing in a GTX670 anyways. ALOT less heat, more efficient processing, less power, etc etc.

NateZ28
08-29-2012, 12:45 AM
My 480 won't go above 99.28hz. I can play most games with it except BF3. I really miss my 670, which did 120hz and ran BF3 buttery smooth.

Sneaky
08-29-2012, 12:49 AM
My 480 won't go above 99.28hz. I can play most games with it except BF3. I really miss my 670, which did 120hz and ran BF3 buttery smooth.
No news from ASUS on your 670 yet?

TheZone
08-29-2012, 03:15 PM
No news from ASUS on your 670 yet?

Yes nate what did they say?I would like yo know.

LucidFrost
08-30-2012, 10:26 AM
Thanks for all the input guys. I've settled on the GTX 470 2GB as my card of choice, after I get that I can take a look at the Overlord monitors. It sounds like I should choose one with the 680 PCB from comments here, does that give me slightly better overclocking results?

TheZone
08-30-2012, 02:35 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. I've settled on the GTX 470 2GB as my card of choice, after I get that I can take a look at the Overlord monitors. It sounds like I should choose one with the 680 PCB from comments here, does that give me slightly better overclocking results?


I hope you mean GTX 670 and not the GTX470 you wont get much out of that GTX 470 for OC the monitor and video card also.
with a gtx 670/680 you can get any were from 100HZ to 120 HZ if i was you i buy the 670 card it's the best card for the money.

Sn0_Man
08-30-2012, 02:48 PM
Pretty sure the best 670 is still the Gigabyte Winforce 3X version since it is on a 680 PCB. I have one, it works great, blah blah blah. My 2cents.

Oh, and IMO the best card for the money right now is the 7950 for $300. Its almost criminal how cheap that is. However, nobody on this forum likes AMD (even though their new drivers can be hacked for 120Hz, and we haven't managed that with NV yet). So yeah, if you buy a 670, they certainly are great cards.

TheZone
08-30-2012, 06:35 PM
Pretty sure the best 670 is still the Gigabyte Winforce 3X version since it is on a 680 PCB. I have one, it works great, blah blah blah. My 2cents.

Oh, and IMO the best card for the money right now is the 7950 for $300. Its almost criminal how cheap that is. However, nobody on this forum likes AMD (even though their new drivers can be hacked for 120Hz, and we haven't managed that with NV yet). So yeah, if you buy a 670, they certainly are great cards.

Ok Ok your right sno_man yes AMD is right now----and yes im a fan boy lolol

unphased
08-31-2012, 01:02 AM
Have you considered opening up the monitor and gluing down the components that cause the buzzing? There is a guide up for it. There is no harm caused by it.

Yes I have considered it but to be honest I just cant be bothed as the other unit I have is capable of 120Hz.

My actual computer is still partially disassembled and I have yet to install a custom heatsink on the VRMs on the mobo which should allow me to push past 4.0Ghz stable on the 2500k (it says 4.5 in my sig but at 4.5 P95 causes throttling) and I also have a brand new 120GB SSD thats lying around on my desk I still havent installed...

wouldnt make any sense for me to pull apart one of my catleaps till I finish building my PC lol

also yes the 7950 is a steal, I paid $400 for one not 3 months ago. Blistering GPGPU perf (not that anyone here cares about that) but it may well prove much more future proof compared to a 670.

NateZ28
08-31-2012, 08:26 AM
Yes nate what did they say?I would like yo know.
My replacement 670 is arriving today. Wish me luck.

whitespider
08-31-2012, 08:59 AM
My experience with a single gtx 670, and now sli. Is mostly positive. If you are a frame perception nut like me, yes, you will find fault with everything. Microstutter still totally exists, although it's not like it was on the 6990.

On a single gpu, the framerate can shift -->up 20fps and then down<-- 30fps, and that transition will be smooth. Lower framerates on a single card are also accurate. On this sli setup, it's noticeable within 5fps of the refresh. On the 6990, more game engines produced more drastic microstutter. On the 670's, less game engines produce far less drastic microstutter. You can solve this by making sure the game hits the target framerate. If a game is cpu bound, and WILL jump down in framerate. You actually get a smoother overall experience lowering the refresh to -around- the minimum framerate and then hitting vsync. Or lowering the settings until the minimum framerate is higher and then setting the refresh to that along with vsync.

If the game is competitive, and you need vsync off. You better hope it's a game with extremely even frame timings and a solid optimized engine, battlefield 3 for example.

Some game engines, like the aforementioned battlefield 3, surprisingly risen 2, and a few others don't mind if you turn vsync off. In these cases adaptive vsync is more useful. Because when it shuts down the vsync you are not left with a fast-slideshow effect.(Unless the game is competitive, in which case you would be better off with a single gpu, completely lowered settings, and a 120+hz refresh rate) For reference, the 6990 had a not-so-fast slideshow effect (aka, strong microstutter).Some games however, HATE no vsync when using two 6xx gpu's. Just like any other card on the market.

And in these cases, you need to consider your options. If the frame perception is hit severely by a shift between 40fps and 80fps, and you don't want to cap your refresh and vsync to 40hz (who would). You might just need to use a single gpu. That 40fps will go from choppy to smooth *snap* like that. Arkham City with tessellation enabled in just one example, each stutter will last twice as long and happen twice as often on the SLI setup. Since each of these is a fraction of a second, you might think, who cares. Well, they add up. And the overall experience is compromised. Lower the AA settings, turn up physx to the absolute maximum, and run with a single gpu with the second a dedicated physx card, problem solved.(In that very specific case) Single gpu's don't need vsync to feel consistent, muliti gpu's generally do, particularly if you are sensitive to framerates.

That is why a gk110 (gtx 780, whatever you want to call it) will be worth whatever the asking price is. It's either slightly less powerful or slightly more powerful than gtx 670's in sli. Without any of the pitfalls.

The plus sides of having cards in sli, are many. Most games won't have crazy cpu/gpu/optimization problems, so you will be able to get a semi even framerate. In those cases adding things like AA, nvidia's inbuilt ssao, and super-high-end-nvidia-inspector AA, won't incur the huge frame perception penalty like when you use a single card. And this is not just framerate related. If you force SSAO or sparse grid supersampling (or any other number of combinations), 80fps solid on the sli config will seem smooher than 80fps on the single gpu. The single gpu, even if capable, will lag somewhat. Because it's doing multi levels of processing on a single card. Also, in games with native microstutter, nvidia's frame metering actually solves the perception issues everyone else gets. So for bethesda/obsidian games like fallout new vegas, or skyrim, the frames will 'smooth out' and the whole thing will become buttery. Wheraes a single gtx 670 will still suffer from the engine bug. This is true for other open world games as well, like the gothic series. It's all quite interesting really.

And lastly, in some cases. Games will come with positives and negatives with sli. Saints row the third for instance. On a single gpu on high settings and no AA, a 670 will play the game smoother than sli at exactly the same settings. However if you crank the AA to 8x, or even higher via nivdia inspector. The single gtx 670 will produce a stuttery 40fps, whereas the SLI config will deal with the extra load, and still produce a playable and relatively smooth game. Just never as smooth as the single gpu at lower settings can.

So in many cases, you kind of need to crank up the settings, or switch to a single gpu, depending on what you want out of the game. Super crisp visuals with acceptable smoothness (SLI), or reduced visuals with a more consistent smoothness. And in the end, the reason I am glad I got the gtx 670, the Catleap 2b monitor, and eventually the SLI setup. Is that those things afford me options. I can pick the game, what I like most about it, and then tailor the game to it's strengths. I have a refresh rate to play with, SLI's ability to maintain strong AA settings, and a single gpu for those stubborn games that need a consistent framerate.

TheZone
08-31-2012, 02:35 PM
My replacement 670 is arriving today. Wish me luck.

Good Luck Nate hope it works out for you;)

NateZ28
08-31-2012, 02:47 PM
My experience with a single gtx 670, and now sli. Is mostly positive.......
....I can pick the game, what I like most about it, and then tailor the game to it's strengths. I have a refresh rate to play with, SLI's ability to maintain strong AA settings, and a single gpu for those stubborn games that need a consistent framerate.
Holy long post! That's a lot of info to digest. I really hope Nvidia releases the 780 this year. The 780 is what we need to run modern games like BF3 at 1440p @ 120hz at or close to 120 FPS (max settings).


Good Luck Nate hope it works out for you;)
Thanks I'll let you guys know how it turns out tonight.

laginisdragin
08-31-2012, 04:57 PM
great testing whitespider. Highly informative for anyone who is considering adding another gtx 6xx. I have a couple things to say,

Firstly, I believe that sli will render frames ahead by default which makes the cpu have to load them in advance. There is a setting in the nvidia control panel "render ahead limit" which works for single gpu's. Basically the higher you set it, the smoother it will feel because every time a drop in framerate would have happened it already loaded the frames in advance during a period of less work load. Unfortunately, increasing it also adds input lag the higher you set it, making the games feel like "molasses" so to speak (smoother but slower). But to my knowledge this setting will not have any influence during sli because nvidia has a special default that they use for sli.

I suspect that it is probably rendering quite a few frames ahead during sli to reduce microstutter as much as possible, which puts strain on cpu. That could explain why in sli framerate drops tend to be due to cpu where in the same location a single gpu config would not drop due to cpu. And I suppose since there are two separate gpu's the input lag increase is less noticeable or non existent. Also, since different games tend to handle rendering ahead completely differently, that could explain completely different experiences between different games in sli. Just a theory.

OK, sorry about all that speculation, here is where I will try to help. Windows 7 uses HPET which is a way that the system will keep time. I'm not going to act like I'm an expert but basically it interacts horribly with TSC (time stamp counter, which is also rather dated at this point). Both have to sync up with each other and it ends up being not ideal for gaming. You can disable TSC by running your command prompt as administrator and typing "bcdedit /set useplatformclock true" no quotes. Then restart computer for it to take effect.

From there you can choose to go into your bios and disable HPET which will cause windows to use LAPIC, or you can just use HPET. But the key is to not have to use either of these in conjunction with TSC. I personally disabled HPET and use LAPIC because there is less input lag but this in theory could vary from system to system, but either should be much smoother.

I could understand if you didn't want to mess with your command prompt settings, you can look this up if you want more info, it is safe. I highly suspect that a large amount of the microstuttering in sli that happens is due to this alone. Your sensitivity to the issue and testing methodology make me think that you would notice a change for sli if there is one. And since I was thinking of adding another gtx 670, I have personal interest in the results. I already notice a very beneficial change with a single gtx 670, but suspect that it will be monumental for multi gpu's. Anyone else could also try this, and it should also affect crossfire. Sorry for long post.

whitespider
08-31-2012, 06:28 PM
I am testing around with it at the moment. I was getting silky smooth framerates in the witcher 2 before. Now it's REALLY stuttery. I'll keep the command in, and switch back to HPET in the the bios. Then I'll go backwards and forwards a few times just to make sure I'm not tripping.

I can't tell for sure, sleeping dogs might have been 'sliiigghhttly smoother'.

Edit1: Ok, laginisdragin. Perhaps the witcher 2 should not have been my initial game of choice, however it was. And my god, using the settings you recommended degrades performance in that game by a lot. SLI is only being used 70%, and microstutter invades everything. Beforehand the witcher 2 was always one of the games that never microstuttered for me, not with the 6990, not with the sli gtx 670's. It only suffered very mildly from framerate shifts during the cpu heavy segments. Mostly it produced very even frames, and seemed like it was almost designed ground up to work on duel gpu cards. Which I guess is why I tested it.A:, It's cpu heavy. And B: at 2560x1440 @ 99hz@ultra. It's damned gpu heavy. Moreso than crysis 2.

And the performance really did tank. I actually panicked for a second and quickly reverted the settings. The moment I did. Smooth as silk once more. So, this has me interested. If it tanks the witcher 2 performance, does it tank every games performance? Or perhaps it improves some, and degrades others. Perhaps SLI was made with the standard timings in mind. If i boot up the worst performer (arkam city dx11), will that actually have improvements? Well..

I guess that's what i am going to find out.

laginisdragin
08-31-2012, 08:20 PM
wow that is surprising and disappointing. I forgot to add "bcedit /deletevalue useplatformclock" to remove the change, you probably already know. I guess you could try with single gpu to isolate if its just incompatible with SLI, but I truly thought it would be universally beneficial. I guess it varies from system to system.

whitespider
09-01-2012, 09:57 PM
Something I have noticed helping, is process lasso. I have never been someone to have lot's of apps running in the background when i play games, in fact, I even disable all the windows processes that I don't use. So the system is optimized. However process lasso does a few things that helps games perform 'that much tighter'.

It downgrades the priory of programs when you run games, it keeps in memory the IO priority (hdd dedication), and the cpu priority. So you can set each to high or realtime. Realtime makes loadtime times faster, and makes the time in between each stutter smoother, high does this less strongly, however it does not cause the very occational 'sound stutter' that realtime does. It also let's you assign the affinity and priority of programs on dependencies, such as me running skyrim. So suddenly steam, my download manager, etc, are all using third the fourth cores.

This is mostly useful for games that use the first two threads more than the second two, however it's nice being able to give all of the system resources to a program, and it does improve performance. Maybe not the framerate performance, and it only gives a 1-10% boost to frame perception, and only in specific games. (Some games don't really care), however it's good to get a boost from as many things as possible.

It also makes the input speed about 5-10% better as well, and increases the effectiveness of 'frames to render ahead' from 1% to about 3% - in games that actually gain benefit from it. Honestly 'frames to render ahead' in the gpu settings is not always a great idea. Sometimes setting it to 4 or 6 instead of the default 3, does absolutely nothing to frame perception, although I will admit, setting it to 1 does increase the input rate to a noticeable degree, moreso on a single gpu . Also sli is not using a higher 'frames to render ahead' than a single gpu does, it's exactly the same '3'. Frame metering (what gtx 4xx,5xx,6xx cards use to even out the microstuttering, best they can) is another thing altogether.

Sneaky
09-02-2012, 04:41 AM
I just put a second GTX580 3GB in my rig and have noticed BF3 is great with SLI but COD Black Ops in SLI is just a stuttery piece of crap (maxed out settings).
Once I turned vsync on though it was fine.
Might have to try that App 'Process Lasso' thanks for that ;)

TheZone
09-02-2012, 05:43 AM
I just put a second GTX580 3GB in my rig and have noticed BF3 is great with SLI but COD Black Ops in SLI is just a stuttery piece of crap (maxed out settings).
Once I turned vsync on though it was fine.
Might have to try that App 'Process Lasso' thanks for that ;)

Dam sneaky your rich two 580 3gb lol and the new maps for BF3 they look like old COD maps to haha

Sneaky
09-02-2012, 06:02 AM
Dam sneaky your rich two 580 3gb lol and the new maps for BF3 they look like old COD maps to haha
I only bought it coz I got a great deal, meant I had enough to get the Waterblock and a Backplate, also got the EK SLI Bridge and connectors,
looks pretty cool all set up, couldn't find a second EK GTX580 Backplate for a reasonable price though so only one card has a BP.
I'll post some pics in my build log thread when I get a chance to take some ;)

TheZone
09-02-2012, 06:56 AM
I only bought it coz I got a great deal, meant I had enough to get the Waterblock and a Backplate, also got the EK SLI Bridge and connectors,
looks pretty cool all set up, couldn't find a second EK GTX580 Backplate for a reasonable price though so only one card has a BP.
I'll post some pics in my build log thread when I get a chance to take some ;)

post what you want on the evga site and see if any one there is selling one like this guy http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1681624