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View Full Version : ToastyX - any luck removing the 400 MHz limit for non-Kepler cards?



twincam23
09-25-2012, 10:18 PM
I'll re-donate to the cause if you find the solution! Lets raises the stakes guys and put some money on on.

Shadman
09-26-2012, 03:48 AM
I haven't needed to use his stuff at all, but I still feel obliged to update.
If the PCB project comes about, I'll definitely donate! If I manage to sell my 3930k for how much I want, I'll do that too lol.

Hold me to it!

Sneaky
09-26-2012, 08:41 AM
Yep, same here. I haven't really had a need to use any of Toasty's releases.
Well I did but found the other options better for me.
Will definitely donate if he can work out a patch for Fermi cards. ;)

FeArZ
09-26-2012, 08:45 AM
The caveman gtx 470's that I have need 120hz. I will put up some money also.

HyperMatrix
09-26-2012, 07:44 PM
I think the masses have spoken:

694

Shadman
09-26-2012, 09:32 PM
Yeah Hyper....thats legitimate...:rolleyes:

HyperMatrix
09-26-2012, 10:05 PM
Yeah Hyper....thats legitimate...:rolleyes:

But it's..Over 9000!!!

brokn9
09-26-2012, 10:44 PM
haha

twincam23
09-27-2012, 01:07 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maom2vRAyK1r4cbfto1_500.gif

which one is HyperMatrix and Greensum?

Mkilbride
09-27-2012, 02:56 AM
Well, I'd say the little one is Greensum.

TheZone
09-27-2012, 04:58 AM
No that's green sum and Hyper big one is hyper

TheZone
09-27-2012, 09:15 AM
Well, I'd say the little one is Greensum.

yes and Green Sum is Dancing all the way to the bank LOLOL;);)

BlackOctagon
09-27-2012, 09:24 AM
yes and Green Sum is Dancing all the way to the bank LOLOL;);)

No where near as much as Apple

Jedi2155
09-27-2012, 12:06 PM
But it's..Over 9000!!!

I think you edit to correct that, its 9000 but not OVER 9000!!!!

ToastyX
09-27-2012, 04:37 PM
I discovered there are actually two 400 MHz limits. I found where the first one is defined. The other one doesn't seem to be hard-coded anywhere, so I have to find the code responsible for checking the limit, which isn't easy to do. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack.

The good news is I just found a way to bypass the check, and it actually works, so the hardware is definitely capable of going past 400 MHz (and even beyond 500 MHz). The problem is I haven't found the code for the actual check itself, so it's not a proper solution. It's just a hack that happens to work. I'm still hoping to find the code for the check itself, but if I can't, I'll just use this method to bypass it. I just hope this code isn't GPU-specific.

Sneaky
09-27-2012, 06:06 PM
Thanks Toasty very promising news ;)

twincam23
09-27-2012, 07:33 PM
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/gallery/yes/Chuck_Norris_Approves.gif

Please hurry before I ship this card out. I'm #84 at EVGA step-up program for a gtx680. started at 745 back in June. Got a couple more weeks with this card.
Thanks ToastyX!!

Punishert
09-27-2012, 10:29 PM
Sounds good!

ToastyX
09-29-2012, 04:52 PM
I'm probably not going to find the actual check any time soon, so I'm releasing a patch with the bypass: http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-NVIDIA-Pixel-Clock-Patcher

Don't try to go above 540 MHz, or it will lock up when trying to set the resolution. That's plenty for 120-125 Hz anyway. Other than that, it seems to work without adverse effects.

You can use either CRU or the NVIDIA control panel with 304.48 or later. The patch will work with 301.42, but 301.42 has additional limits that prevent CRU from working past 330 MHz. You can use the NVIDIA control panel though.

I don't know if these checks are GPU-specific, so let me know if it works for you and what GPU you're using.

Sneaky
09-29-2012, 05:16 PM
Awesome .... thanks Toasty testing it out now ;)
*EDIT -----> WOOHOO! ..... 120hz, screen flickers at Automatic timings but got it working with these timings:
GTX580 3GB SLI ----> 120hz @
2560----1440
48------------3
32------------3
2700----1450

Now to see if I can go higher ;)

*EDIT 2
OK 120hz seems to be my limit, at 125hz no matter what timings I tried the screen just kept going black,
my last attempt it locked in a black screen, needed to reboot.
* on all attempts I had the pixel clock under 500mhz.

No matter this is bloody fantastic I can at least get to 120hz with no flickering or artifacts.
THANK YOU ToastyX ... you are the MAN!
Donation coming your way soon ;)

*EDIT 3
Scrap that, started getting flickering scan lines at 120hz, dropped it down 1hz to 119 and it is perfect :D

nocturnal7x
09-29-2012, 05:37 PM
OMG this is amazing. WIll test soon!

nocturnal7x
09-29-2012, 06:08 PM
*EDIT 3
Scrap that, started getting flickering scan lines at 120hz, dropped it down 1hz to 119 and it is perfect :D

Do these lines change color/have color, I see green/blue flickering lines in games, nothing on my desktop, only in games. Are these the scan lines everyone speaks of?

ANYWAY, I can run past 100hz so this is amazing toasty!

Sneaky
09-29-2012, 06:43 PM
Here ya go, they also only seem to appear in that section of the screen.

702

nocturnal7x
09-29-2012, 06:46 PM
Hmm, ok looks different than mine, Ill play with stuff some more and see what happens. Thanks!

ToastyX
09-29-2012, 07:16 PM
Do these lines change color/have color, I see green/blue flickering lines in games, nothing on my desktop, only in games. Are these the scan lines everyone speaks of?
Intermittent flickering colored lines indicates a signal quality issue. A better cable might help there. Try reducing the vertical total to 1450 if you haven't already.

The scanlines are something else. Those are faint horizontal lines where every other row of pixels is slightly darker.




Here ya go, they also only seem to appear in that section of the screen.

702
Those lines are different. Your horizontal total is too low. Leave it at 2720 if you can.

necriss
09-29-2012, 07:50 PM
*EDIT 3
Scrap that, started getting flickering scan lines at 120hz, dropped it down 1hz to 119 and it is perfect :D


Try reducing Vertical to

1440
1
2
1445

Should get you 120hz without any artifacts

Sneaky
09-29-2012, 08:00 PM
Yeah it didn't matter what I had it set at the lines were still there, I have swapped the cable to the other DVI connector, then swapped it back and 120hz is working fine now ;)
Max I can go now with no flickering is 122hz, @ 123hz screen blinks black screen on and off but the test passes,
@ 124hz full black screen and fail.

nocturnal7x
09-29-2012, 08:02 PM
*update*

So reducing the vertical total to 1450 greatly reduced the colored lines. Completely removed them with black pictures on the desktop and reduced them a great deal in dark games.

Punishert
09-29-2012, 08:55 PM
Gonna try this right now for my gtx560ti

Ok so got it up to 118hz with no problem.

At 119 hz the screen flickers, this is solved by putting the vertical to 1450.

At 120 hz the screen starts flickering again with vertical to 1450.

Think I'm just gonna leave it at 118hz right now and see what happens.

Jedi2155
09-30-2012, 12:25 AM
Intermittent flickering colored lines indicates a signal quality issue. A better cable might help there. Try reducing the vertical total to 1450 if you haven't already.
The scanlines are something else. Those are faint horizontal lines where every other row of pixels is slightly darker.
Those lines are different. Your horizontal total is too low. Leave it at 2720 if you can.

Oh that is very good advice! I've been trying to optimize my timing settings but its kind of hard to do without understanding what all values mean. Any simple guides on this? It seems most of the information I've found relates to old CRT signals, but I haven't understood how this affects LCD circuitry/signals. It would be really nice to understand it all so users can customize it to their delight. Right now I think many of us are shooting in the dark when adjusting these values.

Using your advice, I was able to up my my monitor to 115 Hz stable, but still can't do 120 Hz as I get red lines at that frequency.
- So if white horizontal lines are a result of not enough horizontal total, what about red horizontal scan lines?

NightFox
09-30-2012, 02:06 AM
Thank you very much ToastyX!
I get the same as everyone else.
115Hz Auto (2720x1493@467.0104Mhz).
119Hz Manual (2720x1450@469.3360Mhz).
120Hz I can not get. Flickering, black screen or the driver is falling (when I too strongly decreases Total Pixel).
550Ti 1GB OC.
As I understand, the physical(? :o) limit ~470Mhz.

ToastyX
09-30-2012, 04:37 AM
Oh that is very good advice! I've been trying to optimize my timing settings but its kind of hard to do without understanding what all values mean. Any simple guides on this? It seems most of the information I've found relates to old CRT signals, but I haven't understood how this affects LCD circuitry/signals. It would be really nice to understand it all so users can customize it to their delight. Right now I think many of us are shooting in the dark when adjusting these values.
This monitor doesn't care about the individual settings. The only thing that matters is reducing the totals will reduce the bandwidth, which can give you a more stable signal. The only thing to watch out for is if the horizontal total is too low, you will get lines like these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us6BYYL5CN0

Reducing the vertical total to 1450 is the simplest most effective change you can make. If that doesn't help, there isn't much more you can do. The horizontal total can usually be lowered to 2704 at 120 Hz, and the vertical total can go as low as 1443 if you set the vertical front porch and sync width to 1, but some video cards can't handle going that low. 1445 is the lowest that works with every card I've tried so far. That might be enough to get +1 Hz. Beyond that, there's nothing else you can do except test the other DVI port and try another cable. There is no magic timing that will make it work.

Sporadic flickering horizontal lines of any color indicates a signal quality issue. Either the video card is not sending a clean signal, or the cable is not good enough for the bandwidth needed. It could even be the monitor. Remember, the TMDS receiver in this monitor and the TMDS transmitters in most video cards are only designed to handle up to 450 MHz with two links, so anything beyond that is out of spec and prone to interference. Most people have had luck with the 24AWG cable, but I'm not even sure if that's the best cable out there.



For reference:

Blanking is the period between each line and each frame that isn't shown on the screen.

Front Porch + Sync Width + Back Porch = Blanking

Active + Blanking = Total

Pixel clock is the total number of pixels per second.

Horizontal Total * Vertical Total * Refresh Rate = Pixel Clock

2720 * 1450 * 120 = 473280000 (473.28 MHz)




120Hz I can not get. Flickering, black screen or the driver is falling (when I too strongly decreases Total Pixel).
550Ti 1GB OC.
As I understand, the physical(? :o) limit ~470Mhz.
If you get a flickering black screen, then you're hitting the limit of what your monitor can handle. These monitors aren't limited by the pixel clock. They seem to be sensitive to the horizontal scan rate, which can only be lowered by reducing the vertical total. You can lower the vertical total to 1443-1445 by setting the vertical front porch and sync width to 1. That might be enough to get 120 Hz.

NightFox
09-30-2012, 06:09 AM
If you get a flickering black screen, then you're hitting the limit of what your monitor can handle. These monitors aren't limited by the pixel clock. They seem to be sensitive to the horizontal scan rate, which can only be lowered by reducing the vertical total. You can lower the vertical total to 1443-1445 by setting the vertical front porch and sync width to 1. That might be enough to get 120 Hz.
At 1443 driver hangs and then crash.
At 1444 image extremely flickers.
When I'm down horizontal pixels anyway monitor continues to flicker terrible.

Cpt.Teacup
09-30-2012, 11:12 AM
So what happens during blanking and why is it needed?
I tried to look it up but, like Jedi, could only find info about CRT's.

twincam23
09-30-2012, 01:04 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6c93tib9M1r2ms5b.gif
Thanks ToastyX. donated for your hard work!!
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsx39q6hih1qg25cc.gif

mav451
09-30-2012, 11:41 PM
I looked up an older thread regarding 2D idling for nVidia cards, but figured I should bring it up in a more current thread.
Whether I'm at 100Hz or 115Hz, using CVT Reduced Blank, my card remains at 3D speeds at desktop (with no 3D loads obviously).

What else can I try, or am I pretty much stuck to changing my monitor to 60Hz before I sleep every night haha.

ToastyX
10-01-2012, 04:16 AM
I looked up an older thread regarding 2D idling for nVidia cards, but figured I should bring it up in a more current thread.
Whether I'm at 100Hz or 115Hz, using CVT Reduced Blank, my card remains at 3D speeds at desktop (with no 3D loads obviously).

What else can I try, or am I pretty much stuck to changing my monitor to 60Hz before I sleep every night haha.
Hmm, you're right. Is this with a 500-series card? I don't know if I can do anything about that. I do have a screen saver for that though: Idle Screen Saver (http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Idle-Screen-Saver)




So what happens during blanking and why is it needed?
I tried to look it up but, like Jedi, could only find info about CRT's.
The same information still applies. The only difference is LCD monitors don't need large blanking periods because they don't have electron beams to position, and the values won't affect image positioning on most monitors. The blanking periods are needed to figure out where each line and frame begins and ends so the monitor can synchronize with the signal. The values don't matter as much with LCD monitors, but most monitors can't handle values that are too low. Just use whatever works.

The vertical blanking period is also used by video cards for link retraining when switching memory clocks, otherwise it can't change the clock speed without distorting the image. That's why it won't downclock if the vertical blanking is too low.

mav451
10-01-2012, 07:14 AM
Oops yes I got a GTX580 :P
As a compromise, I figured out that up to 90Hz on CVT Reduce that it'll still power down to 400Mhz GPU core (not the 50 that 60Hz is capable of), but it's still good enough of a fall-back haha. I think this confirms an older July thread where someone else was looking at this.

The faint whine on full-white screens is slightly annoying, but it is what it is.

Hmm are you saying that Radeons/Keplers don't have this problem? I'm still trying to ride out my 580 purchase (even if it was bought with the 20% MC coupon haha) to get full value.

brokn9
10-01-2012, 09:16 AM
Oops yes I got a GTX580 :P
As a compromise, I figured out that up to 90Hz on CVT Reduce that it'll still power down to 400Mhz GPU core (not the 50 that 60Hz is capable of), but it's still good enough of a fall-back haha. I think this confirms an older July thread where someone else was looking at this.

The faint whine on full-white screens is slightly annoying, but it is what it is.

Hmm are you saying that Radeons/Keplers don't have this problem? I'm still trying to ride out my 580 purchase (even if it was bought with the 20% MC coupon haha) to get full value.

I found that you can go as high as 99hz and still have the 500series card go into the same power state, heres the timings:
horizontal: 2560, 48, 32, 2720 vertical: 1440, 3, 5, 1485.

mav451
10-01-2012, 09:20 AM
Thanks! I'll try that when I get home tonight.

Kotoko
10-03-2012, 09:32 PM
Anyone here with a gtx 460 try the 120hz? I dont have a 1440p 120hz monitor so I'm asking :)

Ara
10-03-2012, 10:58 PM
GTX580SC, New patch 400; 112hz H:2560,48,32,2704 V:1440,3,5,1450

can reach 116hz max no artifacts but sometimes black screens; H:2560,48,32,2704 V:1440,3,5,1450

brokn9
10-04-2012, 07:34 AM
http://i.imgur.com/7LTTA.jpg Thanks ToastyX <3 :)

FeArZ
10-06-2012, 08:09 AM
I got 120hz, but screen flickers randomly. 119hz and I get scan lines. 118hz is perfect right now. When I get my paycheck I believe its time to donate to ToastyX and monoprice. :D

ThnakssssSSSSSSsssssssssSsSssSS ToastyX